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  • #21
    well, i concur with replacing them if you have the skill. If they are bleeding down overnight and they pump back up after a while, no amount of trans fluid would help. I thought they were stuck for good and thats why i suggested tranny fluid.
    its not that hard to do, just pop the valve covers and rocker arms, lifter tubes, holders and then lifters. Make a very good note of where the lifters came from. Its extremely important

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    • #22
      Originally posted by Rodzim View Post
      well, i concur with replacing them if you have the skill. If they are bleeding down overnight and they pump back up after a while, no amount of trans fluid would help. I thought they were stuck for good and thats why i suggested tranny fluid.
      its not that hard to do, just pop the valve covers and rocker arms, lifter tubes, holders and then lifters. Make a very good note of where the lifters came from. Its extremely important
      Do you mean make sure you note where the push rods come from? Lifters being replaced not important where the old ones come from

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      • Rodzim
        Rodzim commented
        Editing a comment
        Yes, my bad. I meant pushrods

    • #23
      Thanks guys, but what about stuff like soaking the lifters? I feel like there are some *very* important steps that need to be taken that's being left out. And what about lube paste? [can't recall correct name] I've never done a full ending build but I do recall there's some sort of special lube required for something like this, but don't get it on the sides?? What about break in? What fluid do I use, how do I do it? etc.

      While I'm at it, and the pushrods are out, what about adjust ing the valve [lash for lack of a better word] Assuming both are equal, Curt used to say to set them to zero. I think the manual says max clearance should be .004. What are your thoughts?

      Thanks.
      Last edited by Doc_V; 01-20-2019, 11:48 AM.

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      • #24
        if you are not changing cams you dont need any special lube. I soak them in oil for about an hour before i install new lifters. You can buy assembly lube if you want but regular oil will wotk just fine in your case.
        i remember adjusting my lash to 0, but i might be wrong. Thats on one valve only. The other should be self adjusting via the pushrod.
        the special break in oil is needed to break in the cam, not the lifters. The lifters are hardened and you will not hurt them. 99%of lifters get replaced because of hydraulic system leaks, not physical damage.
        So, to summarize, soak the new lifters in oil for about an hour and install them.
        one tip on the valve cover gaskets, i apply a layer of copper spray on both sides before i install them. If you do this you reduce your chances of leaks due to warped surfaces. Plus you dont have to overtorque the m6 bolts which are extremely easy to strip. Dont use a torque wrench on those. Good and tight will do just fine. make sure the gaskets and surfaces are free of oil and dry.

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        • #25
          So just soak the lifters in oil ahead of time and don't mix up the pushrods? That's it? There's got to be more, what about inspecting any potential damage, what should I look for? Will it be obvious?

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          • #26
            I would change this while your at it. Get it at O’Reilly Auto.

            https://www.oreillyauto.com/flux-capacitor

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            • Duke
              Duke commented
              Editing a comment
              Just get Mr Fusion, that will take care of all your energy needs.

          • #27
            I soak them in oil ahead of time also but I go a step further and put a push rod on the lifter plunger while it is in the oil bath and pump it up until it is hard as it will get. usually only takes 1/2 dozen pumps or so. then let them continue to soak until I'm ready to install them .

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            • Duke
              Duke commented
              Editing a comment
              Writing my comments when you posted, Not trying to butt in! Sorry.

          • #28
            When you pull the lifters, check the bottoms for any wear. If you show any wear at all, then inspect the cam closely. Lifter bottoms are convex, and you can check them with a straight edge. If the old lifters have this convex, chances are your cams are in good shape.
            If any lifter shows concave, more than likely chances are there is cam damage.

            You don't have to soak the lifters if you pump them up manually. I use ATF in a small cup, and plunger the inner lifter with a push rod. You can tell it's primed when the lifter inner doesn't move any more.
            (A must) You will want to use a high Zinc / Molybdenum assembly lube for the cams and lifter bottoms. Make sure the oil you use has a high Zinc content for breaking in the cams to lifters.

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            • #29
              JMO but assembly lube is highly over rated. It don't hurt to use it if you happen to have some laying on the shelf but it's only function is to keep from having a dry start. It washes away as soon as the engine is started and engine oil hits the component so it has no effect on break in. If I was gonna build an engine that was gonna set on the shelf or on an engine stand for a while before install and start up I might use it. But for something like this I think it is a waste of money. Just use plenty of oil during installation. But that is just JMO after literally hundreds of rebuilds and component installs.

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              • #30

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                • #31
                  Thanks guys, feeling a little better about this, I've been a bit gun shy after all the horror stories I've read about killing cams with new lifters.

                  Good to know about the convex tip, thanks Duke. I think I'm OK, because there was only a very thin film of oily *paste* on my drain plug magnet when I changed the oil. No flakes. BTW any benefit in soaking with ATF vs oil and how long would you guys recommend? I've heard some say overnight, some an hour and others say only a few mins, especially if you pump them up first.

                  What about the rocker adjustment, should I go with .001 or .002, instead of zero to put less pressure on the cams, lifters etc.?

                  As for oil, I used Mobil 1 20w50 V-Twin when I changed it a couple weeks ago, is that sufficient or do I need to use a zinc additive too? If so, what brand and how much?

                  Is there a special break in process? I.E. Idle for so long, rev up to x RPMs then ride in a certain manner for a certain time? I know when I've bought brand new bikes in the past you weren't supposed to go over a specific RPM for the fist 500 or so miles.

                  Thanks again.

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                  • #32
                    Doc, IIRC you dont have to drain the oil if you leave the bike on the side stand.







                    This space intentionally left blank

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                    • #33
                      The only advantage to atf is it is thinner and will fill the lifter quicker when soaking. Just pump them up by hand and be done with it before you tear the bike down and let them sit in the container of atf or oil until you are ready to install them. There is no advantage to removing them from the oil container. leaving them in the oil is also a good clean safe place to leave them before install.

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                      • #34
                        Click image for larger version  Name:	pushrod.JPG Views:	3 Size:	91.5 KB ID:	55018 I have the collapsible pushrod tubes on mine with adjustable pushrods here is where you are going to get to the lifters. Bet mine would be easier to change.

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                        • #35
                          Check rocker adjustment, if you have .001" to .002" cold gap on the adjusting screw part of the rocker, than leave it there. If you have a gap on the non-adjustable part of the rocker, then adjust it to the above setting. The screw part of the rocker will grow a little with heat and ideally you want both rocker fingers to be pushing the two valves simultaneously at operating temperature. These adjustments will not change any pressure to the cams and/or lifters. That will be a constant.
                          Like Dave said, you can pump them up and leave lifters in the oil overnight, or pump them up install them. No real benefits either way.
                          As of the cam, the used lifters should tell you the story by inspecting the lifter bottoms. Make sure the new lifters fit in, and spin easily into the bores.
                          Your oil is fine, but It sure wouldn't hurt to add some Zinc additive to the oil.
                          When you first start the engine, keep it at high ldle for the oil pressure to be up. Oil is sprayed onto the cam lobes thru a pressure tube with 4 holes directed to each cam lobes. Keeping RPMs up a little keeps the oil pressure up. If you can take it for a long ride, do it, if everything is looking good.
                          After around 500 or so miles and all sounds good, I'd say your good.

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                          • #36
                            I've always gone on the understanding that both the adjustable and nonadjustable side of the rocker arm should be the same. That way both valves open simultaneously and the same amount.

                            Comment


                            • Duke
                              Duke commented
                              Editing a comment
                              That's what you want, simultaneously. The screw when cold will be a certain length and when it warms up the screw will expand a little causing it to grow. Not much but .001" isn't much either. I've always set mine at .002".

                          • #37
                            The non adjustable rocker should be zero. I dont think you can adjust it either way

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                            • #38
                              Push down on the non adjustable side to ensure no lash there while adjusting the adjustable side to no lash also.

                              Comment


                              • Duke
                                Duke commented
                                Editing a comment
                                If you can do that at engine operating temperature, that would be the way I would do it.

                            • #39
                              Originally posted by Doc_V View Post
                              I've always gone on the understanding that both the adjustable and nonadjustable side of the rocker arm should be the same. That way both valves open simultaneously and the same amount.
                              The .001-.002 cold gap adjustment will expand as the engine gets hot and ideally leave you with the "0" lash equally on both valves as it warms up. The .001-.002 shouldn't be enough gap to cause any significant noise before it expands as it will expand pretty quickly. If the gap is more than that noises can come and go depending on how far off the adjustment is, if it is to far off the noise will just always be there because the expansion can't take care of it.

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                              • #40
                                Originally posted by davej View Post

                                The .001-.002 cold gap adjustment will expand as the engine gets hot and ideally leave you with the "0" lash equally on both valves as it warms up. The .001-.002 shouldn't be enough gap to cause any significant noise before it expands as it will expand pretty quickly. If the gap is more than that noises can come and go depending on how far off the adjustment is, if it is to far off the noise will just always be there because the expansion can't take care of it.
                                That's why I've always gone with zero on both when cold; i.e. I can't fit the .001 feeler gauge under either. I figure less noise and more room for wear before it needs adjusting again. I was just wondering earlier if that would have any adverse effect on the lifters, etc. but it sounds like the it shouldn't.

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