On road trip - bike not starting.

[Mr. Miyagi]

Glad that you made it home and didn't end up being a Missing 411 unsolved missing person. lol I definitely hate mechanical stuff that decides to act up in the middle of nowhere. Probably no phone signal and no way to even get located.

[twowheeltherapy]

I just came on here and glad you didn't tear into the carb at your remote location. I knew you were gathering information to form a plan for the morning, but I knew it was going to start right up in the morning. That sounded like a classic case of a well known issue with these bikes called carb puke. And yes, it is absolutely related to heat. Both ambient and running hard and long.
I'm no expert on the subject but if you do a post on "what is carb puke" you will know the cause and a couple remedies.

In short, it's when the fuel actually boils from running so hot, due to the fuel line being so close to the jug. Most noticeable when bike is turned off, the fuel in the bowl expands from the heat. When key is turned back on, by design, more fuels comes into the bowl yet the boiling fuel hasn't been given a chance to cool and has nowhere to go but out through the bottom. That's why I knew by morning the bike would fire right back up.

There are two basic remedies but in the meantime one way to try to mitigate the boil over when you know you've been running hot is to shut off petcock a couple minutes before shut down. This empties the bowl in hopes any remaining fuel will not expand beyond capacity. You can ask the experts about he two remedies. One is wrapping the fuel line with heat shield. The other is removing fuel pump completely and going pumpless.

Glad you made it home and good luck.

[MidnightRide]

I just came on here and glad you didn't tear into the carb at your remote location. I knew you were gathering information to form a plan for the morning, but I knew it was going to start right up in the morning. That sounded like a classic case of a well known issue with these bikes called carb puke. And yes, it is absolutely related to heat. Both ambient and running hard and long.
I'm no expert on the subject but if you do a post on "what is carb puke" you will know the cause and a couple remedies.

In short, it's when the fuel actually boils from running so hot, due to the fuel line being so close to the jug. Most noticeable when bike is turned off, the fuel in the bowl expands from the heat. When key is turned back on, by design, more fuels comes into the bowl yet the boiling fuel hasn't been given a chance to cool and has nowhere to go but out through the bottom. That's why I knew by morning the bike would fire right back up.

There are two basic remedies but in the meantime one way to try to mitigate the boil over when you know you've been running hot is to shut off petcock a couple minutes before shut down. This empties the bowl in hopes any remaining fuel will not expand beyond capacity. You can ask the experts about he two remedies. One is wrapping the fuel line with heat shield. The other is removing fuel pump completely and going pumpless.

Glad you made it home and good luck.

That's a good theory but he said the bike was having the problem while on the road as well as when starting it. It was like CONSTANT carb puke, which just doesn't happen. These bikes wouldn't function if the fuel would get so hot even while running down the road that they'd be constantly overstuffing the carb with fuel. Perhaps a fuel pump on steroids could overpower the float needle, but that's another matter and not solely a factor of heat. I ran in Vegas heat incessantly and never had the problem.

But you may be right, either problem may be solvable by going pumpless. Something to think about.

I've been dealing with minor carb puke myself, and what you suggest makes sense as it being heat-related, because it's always happened after a good ride and then shutting down and letting it set for +/- 20 minutes before firing it up again. There may be a time window-slot during which the 'ruby slipper' will fit and make this happen. 10 minutes after stopping, no issue, 30 minutes, no issue, but 17-22 minutes, a problem.

Makes sense. I'll keep an eye on my time to see what's going on. Happened again yesterday, after taking a break immediately after hard highway running in 75* temps, then firing up again 20+/- minutes later. Never seen it do it while running, after short breaks, or after long breaks such as overnight. I was thinking it was a float level issue, but the fuel may indeed be overstuffing the float bowl. Nonetheless, the fuel pump shouldn't be a factor, because the float would be closing the jet tight so the pump wouldn't be doing anything.

Good theory though.

[twowheeltherapy]

You would know more about it than me. I missed the part about it running poorly, because you're right that is not carb puke. I honed in on bike not starting/-fuel spilling over-very hot-ran it hard.

Can't wait to hear the outcome.

[CoolCheech]

That's a good theory but he said the bike was having the problem while on the road as well as when starting it. It was like CONSTANT carb puke, which just doesn't happen. These bikes wouldn't function if the fuel would get so hot even while running down the road that they'd be constantly overstuffing the carb with fuel. Perhaps a fuel pump on steroids could overpower the float needle, but that's another matter and not solely a factor of heat. I ran in Vegas heat incessantly and never had the problem.

But you may be right, either problem may be solvable by going pumpless. Something to think about.

I've been dealing with minor carb puke myself, and what you suggest makes sense as it being heat-related, because it's always happened after a good ride and then shutting down and letting it set for +/- 20 minutes before firing it up again. There may be a time window-slot during which the 'ruby slipper' will fit and make this happen. 10 minutes after stopping, no issue, 30 minutes, no issue, but 17-22 minutes, a problem.

Makes sense. I'll keep an eye on my time to see what's going on. Happened again yesterday, after taking a break immediately after hard highway running in 75* temps, then firing up again 20+/- minutes later. Never seen it do it while running, after short breaks, or after long breaks such as overnight. I was thinking it was a float level issue, but the fuel may indeed be overstuffing the float bowl. Nonetheless, the fuel pump shouldn't be a factor, because the float would be closing the jet tight so the pump wouldn't be doing anything.

Good theory though.

I think something got lost in translation. Once the bike was up and running there was no real issues. The problem was trying to start it. As I was holding the starter it wouldn’t turn over and I was getting the carb puke which looked like a severed artery spewing blood everywhere. (Gas colored blood.)
And because we were stopping and restarting a lot, it was taking longer and longer to restart. To the point where it finally wouldn’t even attempt to start and I was getting the 6 blinks on the check engine light. Thats when it really quit
on me, and where it stayed until morning — where it then fired up like nothing ever happened.

Earlier in the riding season I was having an issue where the bike would run fine, but in the morning there was a puddle of fuel on the fuel pump side. First at the pet cock hose, which I changed, then somewhere around the fuel pump, which I then changed all the hoses and it made no difference. I was also getting like 20mpg at this time. My mechanic couldn’t figure it out at all. I decided to run some seafoam through it and the problem magically stopped.

it’s been fine until this carb puke problem.

I was thinking about pumpless — but I’ve never taken apart a carb and I’m trying to time remodeling my house. Not sure if my mechanic has the time right now either to look at the bike which sucks since my riding season is just about to end. (Northern Rockies — it could snow any minute now. Ha )

[MikeyC]

The little brass nipple that comes from the petcock that the fuel line goes over can come loose and leak. A little tap on that usually solves the problem. Its just pressed in.

[CoolCheech]

The leak at the petcock went away after some seafoam a few months ago. Not sure if the seafoam helped or it was coincidence. But it was right after

[MidnightRide]

I think something got lost in translation. Once the bike was up and running there was no real issues. The problem was trying to start it. As I was holding the starter it wouldn’t turn over and I was getting the carb puke which looked like a severed artery spewing blood everywhere. (Gas colored blood.)
And because we were stopping and restarting a lot, it was taking longer and longer to restart. To the point where it finally wouldn’t even attempt to start and I was getting the 6 blinks on the check engine light. Thats when it really quit
on me, and where it stayed until morning — where it then fired up like nothing ever happened.

Earlier in the riding season I was having an issue where the bike would run fine, but in the morning there was a puddle of fuel on the fuel pump side. First at the pet cock hose, which I changed, then somewhere around the fuel pump, which I then changed all the hoses and it made no difference. I was also getting like 20mpg at this time. My mechanic couldn’t figure it out at all. I decided to run some seafoam through it and the problem magically stopped.

it’s been fine until this carb puke problem.

I was thinking about pumpless — but I’ve never taken apart a carb and I’m trying to time remodeling my house. Not sure if my mechanic has the time right now either to look at the bike which sucks since my riding season is just about to end. (Northern Rockies — it could snow any minute now. Ha )

Northern Rockies. Idaho or Montana? You may not be too far away from me.

[CoolCheech]

Northern Rockies. Idaho or Montana? You may not be too far away from me.

I’m in SE Idaho, closer to WY than MT.

The more I read about this the more I want to go pumpless, but that would require some learning on my part. I’m handy and have tools but things with engines have never been in my wheelhouse and I’m remodeling my house after work … so free time is not my friend right now.

That said, I’ve seen a couple of suggestions of wrapping a thermal heat tape around the fuel line from the pump to the carb, and insulating it. Will that help? And I’m looking on Amazon and not sure what to buy.

[MidnightRide]

I don't know if it would help. I'm not the guy with the theory, but it would make sense to insulate it to keep it cool. Some would even suggest aluminum foil. Seems like the float bowl might be a culprit as well, so wrapping that with something might make some sense.

LOL, just hold a plastic bowl under the carb and fill it up with that spray foam that you use to insulate your house, then pull the bowl away and sculpt the foam a bit and spray-paint it black! New trend. Wrap the carb with cellophane wrap before you coat it...

Don't tell anyone that I suggested it.

[MidnightRide]

Near Idaho Falls? That's a great little town. On my list for places to escape to should we opt to bugout of NE Washington State.

[CoolCheech]

Haha. About an 1.5hrs from idaho falls. And it’s really bizarre that all these people are moving there and even more to the adjacent Madison county. There is nothing there! Like both places are cultural black holes … unless you’re Mormon. It’s still a cultural black hole but there’s enough sugar shops to satisfy the most sugar addicted Mormons out there.
But if you like good food, if you like a little culture, and if you like water and trees … this region really doesn’t have much of any of that.
We do have mountains though, and some snow, so I guess there’s that.

(Disclaimer: my girlfriend is ex Mormon and her family is all wonderful and still Mormon. So I’m not knocking the people in the religion — even though they have some whacky traditions.)

[CoolCheech]

So I went to check the diameter of the fuel line to buy some heat wrap … and saw this black, dry but very sticky stuff dripping out here. Any ideas? (I know I have the wrong clamps on there.)