Another clutch slipping

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  • Paladin
    Fresh Boarder
    • Jul 2018
    • 14

    Another clutch slipping

    Some of you may remember helping me when I was chasing down a problem with my bike starting and some may remember helping me frpm when my front intake valve was not working. Anyway, with your help (thanks again!) I was able to get that problem fixed, which also seems to have considerably helped fix my starting problem. After replacing the front intake lifter and cams I decided to use Rotella T5 Diesel synth blend oil due to it's high zinc content for the break in period. i ran it 1034 miles for break in and this past weekend I changed the oil/filter again using the same oil. I had used Amsoil V-Twin for the bikes 100,000 mile life up until this point. I have to say my M* does seem to run quieter with the Rotella for whatever reason. Anyway, since doing the lifter/cam replacement and started to use Rotella, my clutch has now started slipping. I don't believe the Rotella has friction modifiers or you guys wouldn't have recommended it. So I'm thinking my clutch is suspect. From all the reading I've been doing it seems like a lot of people have had this problem around 100,000 miles. So I've got a few questions:
    1) is it likely just the clutch spring has weakened and my clutch plates are probably ok?
    2) since I just changed the oil 30 miles ago I really don't want to drain it and waste it. It seems that several years ago I remember reading someone who was able to lean the bike over far enough to be able to take the clutch cover off without losing any oil. is that a legitimate approach and how far over would it need to be leaned?
    3) I can't afford the Barnett upgrade which a lot of people say is overkill anyway. General consensus on other forums is that an EBC spring is better and cheaper than stock. Your opinions on that?
    4) With the arthritis in my hands, I have a hard enough time pulling in the clutch lever with the weakened stock spring. With the EBC reported to be 10-15% stiffer, can anyone tell me how much different it actually feels at the clutch lever?
    Thanks in advance for any help/direction/tips/advice you can give me.
  • Shores
    Platinum Boarder
    • Nov 2013
    • 12255

    #2
    1. Yes, just spring.
    2. Drain engine oil into a clean container and reuse. Don’t drain the tank.
    3. With Barnett you should also change the throw out bearing to the better design that can take the lateral force, vs the stock ball bearing. Someone here has the part number. Some folks have long term success with the EBC and some don’t. I just put one in so can’t report yet. However, if the stock one has lasted you this long, why not just install another stock one?
    4. I can’t tell the difference between stock and EBC spring. Lubing the clutch cable, hand lever and the arm at the engine helps a lot.

    Comment

    • Paladin
      Fresh Boarder
      • Jul 2018
      • 14

      #3
      Excellent, Thanks! I can't afford the Barnett stuff, so that's definitely out. I was thinking the same thing, that 100k miles on the stock springs isn't bad, but in pricing them it looks like I can get the EBC cheaper. When draining the engine oil but not the tank, I'm assuming when you have everything back together you go ahead and start it up, blip the throttle a few times like you normally would to get the oil from the tank down into the engine, then start pouring the oil I drained into the oil tank? Any other quirks to that? Are all the parts needed the new spring and the gasket for the clutch cover?

      Comment

      • roadiemort
        Platinum Boarder
        • Apr 2011
        • 12909

        #4
        My Clymers manual says to change # 26 also when changing the spring.

        Comment

        • Paladin
          Fresh Boarder
          • Jul 2018
          • 14

          #5
          Thanks. I wasn't thinking after I asked if there was anything else and went ahead and ordered the EBC clutch spring and case gasket. So it's too late to order part 26 and get it added to my order without having to pay extra shipping. Hopefully, i can do this without replacing that part. Thanks for the info though!!

          Comment

          • Paladin
            Fresh Boarder
            • Jul 2018
            • 14

            #6
            Good news, I called up Partzilla and was able to add part 26 to the order after all!

            Comment

            • Shores
              Platinum Boarder
              • Nov 2013
              • 12255

              #7
              Originally posted by Paladin
              Excellent, Thanks! I can't afford the Barnett stuff, so that's definitely out. I was thinking the same thing, that 100k miles on the stock springs isn't bad, but in pricing them it looks like I can get the EBC cheaper. When draining the engine oil but not the tank, I'm assuming when you have everything back together you go ahead and start it up, blip the throttle a few times like you normally would to get the oil from the tank down into the engine, then start pouring the oil I drained into the oil tank? Any other quirks to that? Are all the parts needed the new spring and the gasket for the clutch cover?
              Correct re the oil. With your arthritis and mixed reviews of the EBC spring, the OEM spring is a better bet.

              Comment

              • daveto
                Expert Boarder
                • Dec 2016
                • 422

                #8
                my apologies, Mort already posted,
                Last edited by daveto; 07-19-2018, 10:23 PM. Reason: I only read the quote,posted and then re read the thread.

                Comment

                • Paladin
                  Fresh Boarder
                  • Jul 2018
                  • 14

                  #9
                  To everyone who has replied you have my thanks. I ended up ordering the EBC spring and gasket, figuring that's all I'd need to replace. When I got into the clutch and pulled the plates out, the friction plates were pretty dirty looking and the steel plates were somewhat burnished. the entire inside of the case was completely covered with what looks like burned on black crap. With 100,000 miles on the original clutch, I guess it's had a bit of wear and tear. I spent about 3 1/2 hours cleaning the entire case, cover, and parts up and it all looks brand new now. I also ended up saying screw it and just ordered the entire stock clutch replacement kit with the spring, all the plates, etc. It's supposed to be in tomorrow so hopefully I'll be back in the saddle again shortly, assuming all goes well with the install. I'm also going to have to change the oil even though I hate to since this last oil change has less than 100 miles on it, but I don't know how much of the oil has leaked out at this point, so I wouldn't know how much was in the bike unless I just did a complete change. Going back with Rotella T5 15w40 again. I do have a question about the clutch plates though. The exploded diagram shows Friction Plate 26H-16321-01-00 and Clutch Plate 26H-16324-00-00 up next to the Clutch Boss, which are separated from the rest of the friction and clutch plates numbers 26H-16304-01-00 (8 plates) and 26H-16324-00-00 (7 plates) by the little wire ring. I'm just curious as to what the difference is between these two groups of plates? ( I want to make sure I don't get them mixed up). Hopefully this will all go smoothly as I'm leaving on a thousand mile trip through the Blue Ridge Mountains in one week. As I put all this back together, is there anything in particular I need to watch out for? The service manual doesn't specify soaking the friction plates in oil (that I can find) prior to installing, but I've seen instructions to do that in several places. One person said to soak them in ATF fluid and another said to use the same motor oil you're running in the bike. Is it actually necessary to pre-soak these and if so, how long should they soak? And again, thanks for your help!

                  Comment

                  • davej
                    Platinum Boarder
                    • Jan 2009
                    • 21281

                    #10
                    soak them!!!! Just soak them in oil, no need to buy anything extra. In fact the oil you took out of the bike would work just fine. soak them at least a few hours.

                    Comment

                    • Jclevesque
                      Platinum Boarder
                      • Feb 2018
                      • 1254

                      #11
                      Just being curious and I have not researched it, but why use Rotella 15w40? All I have used is plain old Yamalube 10w40.

                      Comment

                      • Paladin
                        Fresh Boarder
                        • Jul 2018
                        • 14

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Jclevesque
                        Just being curious and I have not researched it, but why use Rotella 15w40? All I have used is plain old Yamalube 10w40.
                        In the first 100,000 miles, after the initial break in period I've used nothing but Amsoil (full synthetic) up until the last oil change. Based on recommendations from a bunch of people, I thought I'd give the Rotella (T5 which is a synth/dino blend just like Yamalube) a try. It's high in ZDDP (which I want) to help protect our non roller-bearing lifters and cams and doesn't have any friction modifiers. Amsoil also has a high zinc/phosphorous content, but my Amsoil dealer moved away and Wally World carries the Rotella, so it's a lot more convenient. The Rotella is also about $14 a gallon and very highly rated, so it's pretty affordable. As far as the weight, it only comes in 5w40 and 15w40 so that's why i went with the 15. I've run both 10w40 and 20w50 Amsoil in the Roadie over the years so I figure the 15 should be fine.

                        Comment

                        • Paladin
                          Fresh Boarder
                          • Jul 2018
                          • 14

                          #13
                          Originally posted by davej
                          soak them!!!! Just soak them in oil, no need to buy anything extra. In fact the oil you took out of the bike would work just fine. soak them at least a few hours.
                          Cool, thanks. I'll probably go ahead and leave them in the oil I drained from the bike overnight.

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