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Jet Kit, Intake porting, Carbon build up fun

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  • Jet Kit, Intake porting, Carbon build up fun

    Hey folks. I thought I'd post this in case it's of any interest to anyone. After recently modifying my exhaust (I'm the inverted cone guy), I decided to throw a Dynojet Jet Kit in as well as replace my intake manifold which had tons of cracks when I bought the bike a month or so ago. In working on this stuff, I wanted to share some of what I saw and did. If I'm writing about things already discussed, sorry.

    Jet Kit: I bought the Dynojet 4175 for about $75. That's about what I paid for the kit for my old ZX-11 and it had 4 carbs. In other words, kind of pricey considering it's basically a jet and a needle. Paying for R&D, I guess. Anyway, I had an immediate concern because the Dynojet main jet shoulder is so much smaller than the mikuni main jet. I also wanted to make sure the tubular spacer should still be utilized. So, I called Dynojet tech support. It was a good experience. Ended up getting on with a senior engineer who acknowledged my concern about the size/shoulder being so much smaller than the mikuni but that they've been making the kit since 1999 and it will be fine. Also, DO use the tubular spacer. So there you go. One other point I want to bring up on this subject is the conversion chart I've seen posted in many places on the interweb regarding Dynojet, Mikuni, and Keihen jet size relationships. I'd stay wary. When I look at those charts, it makes it seem as if a Mikuni 165 is quite a bit larger than a Dynojet 165. I measured both with some tip cleaners (I know, I know, be careful, don't damage, etc.) and my largest tip cleaner seemed to fit pretty much the same in both jets. So...I dunno about those charts. Good intentions I'm sure and maybe valid but for my situation, it would have been misleading. (And I know, orifice diameter, flow characteristics, etc., I get it that there is more to it than just diameter).

    Intake Manifold: My original manifold had a lot of cracks in it and so initially, I sealed it up with some RTV. But I picked up a new OEM manifold and decided to do a little porting on it before using. Trying to be clever, I initially got a knife blade soldering tip and was going to see if I could slice through the offending edges rather than use my Dremel tool. I gave it a good shot but it just didn't work out well. Maybe a higher wattage iron would have yielded better results. So I used my Dremel tool and made a nice improvement on that 90 degree turn. It's radiused nicely too. I have some before and after pics attached.

    Carbon Build Up: While I had the manifold off I peeked into the intake ports on the heads (I used a fiber optic camera at first but found that my iPhone would do just as well for the most part. What I found surprised me. In both heads I found that the outer most intake valve (as measured by the centerline of the bike) was carbon free. But the inner valve was covered in carbon. It must have to do with the flow/swirl pattern in that runner leading to the valves. So I spent quite a bit of time doing my best to clean it. It's an awkward reach. I used Map Sensor spray initially but then got some Seafoam and used a syringe to get it in there. Plus I used an acid brush and some chopsticks to clean and agitate it as much as I could. I got it substantially cleaner and hope that in the morning, after continuing to soak, it will be cleaner still. Before and after pics attached. Suggest if you pull off your carb to take a little extra time to pull the manifold to inspect. I intend on using seafoam pretty regularly.

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  • #2
    that isn't carbon, that is burnt oil residue from having the crankcase vent hose plugged into the back of the airbox. Once you remove the hose and re-route it that will not come back.

    Comment


    • schzx14
      schzx14 commented
      Editing a comment
      Hi Dave, I'm gonna have to disagree with you on that. It's definitely carbon build up. Burned oil residue is what causes carbon build up so I feel we're not too far apart on that. However, disabling crankcase ventilation isn't something you want to do. PCV (positive crankcase ventilation) has been around since the 60's. Prior to that they (car makers primarily) used draft tubes in an effort to allow crankcase blow-by and moisture to be removed. As a result, cars driven around town ended up having pretty nasty crankcases. The internals of my engine are spotless (I adjusted the valves first thing when I bought the bike) and so I know it's ventilating well. And after reading your post, I ran out and made sure there were no restrictions. There aren't. Lastly, if it was what you are saying, it would affect both intake valves, not just one. Possible it's oil getting past the valve seal and I don't rule that out. But again, it's oil that cooks on something hot that turns it into carbon buildup. The point I was making was that folks might want to peek at the tops of their valves when they have the carb off, just to keep an eye on it. I was a mechanic for a long time and when I got out of that field, I remained a gearhead. I do appreciate your feedback though and was glad it got me to go check for blockage, just to check that off the list. Thank you!

  • #3
    Yeah...not carbon buildup. Save yourself time and effort...you want everything real clean.....use double dose seafoam 8n gas tank (10.6 oz full tank gas) and remove exhaust pipes from head and spray 1/2 can of seafoam deep creep into each exhaust port and let set overnight and button back up. Also spray more deep creep directly into carb while running for 20_30 sec while revving enough to not die. This will get everything very clean.....clean enough to clearly see top of pistons with camera down a plug hole. And makes plugs look new.

    Will want to change oil after all of this as well (throw 4 oz seafoam in oil and ride it hard 20_30 min right before changing oil.

    Do all this if you want everything cleaned out. And after a month of riding it's all dirty again lol
    LET'S RIDE

    Comment


    • schzx14
      schzx14 commented
      Editing a comment
      Thanks for the tip.

  • #4
    I didn't say disable Crankcase vent I said reroute it so it don't empty into your intake. And it is burnt oil residue. I've been a mechanic for over 40 years and know exactly what it is and also know it is from the crankcase vent to the back of the airbox. carbon would be what you would find in the exhaust side. Nothing goes into the intake side to cause carbon. I'll bet if you reroute the crankcase vent like you remember on the old cars that had a draft tube and then check again in 6 months after you clean that crap off the valves there won't be any new crap on them. Just about everyone here on the forum has rerouted the hose to eliminate that issue. As far as being on both valves equal that is due to the swirl of the incoming air and not having a precision flowed head. not oil getting past the valve seal.

    Comment


    • #5
      Dave, saying it's burnt oil residue and not carbon buildup is like a dentist saying it's tooth decay and not a cavity. Burnt oil residue baking on something hot is what carbon deposits are. But forget that, it wasn't even my point. My only point was to let folks know they might want to keep an eye on it. I appreciate your advice about rerouting the crankcase vent tube and I'll consider it as I continue to monitor the situation. I'll be done with this thread after this because I never meant to get into a pissing match...with anyone. Was just sharing things I found to try and help others out. This article is from Valvoline trying to sell oil but they do talk about carbon build up, what it is, what causes it, etc. Like I say, I appreciate your input and will keep an open mind about rerouting the vent tube. Thanks. https://team.valvoline.com/diy/truth...carbon-buildup

      Comment


      • davej
        davej commented
        Editing a comment
        My point was explaining what it was and what it is from and how to correct it..

    • #6
      I appreciate you letting me know it's a common problem related to crankcase ventilation. Thank you. We can call the burnt oil residue which has hardened into a substance which looks, acts, and feels surprisingly like carbon build-up, ummmm, how about flarbon build-up. :-) Regarding corrective action, I'm going to install an oil separator (oil catch can) and keep the ventilation system as intended. With a small enough can, might be able to fit it inside the air cleaner housing. If not, somewhere behind it. I've found some pretty cheap on Amazon which are probably made better than something home-made and will update once finished. All the best.

      Comment


      • roadiemort
        roadiemort commented
        Editing a comment
        HD guys been using them for years as well as racers with HO motors. They work.

    • #7
      Reroute and point down lol. Don't overthink it....simple old-fashioned unsophisticated motor that will last forever and built like a tank.

      I've rounded mine straight down and under motor with best results but I have used an ego filter at end of hose but at sustained highway speed it will sling residue everywhere.
      Attached Files
      LET'S RIDE

      Comment


      • #8
        UPDATE! Extra, extra, read all about it:

        Well I couldn't find a catch-can small enough to fit in the air cleaner box, or even behind it. I also wasn't going to spend a fortune or spend a crazy amount of time. So I found this on Amazon for about 20 bucks. It's really nice. All aluminum with o-rings on the reservoir and on the fittings. Only the bottom plug is kind of lame but I put on a ton of teflon tape and hope it won't be an issue. We'll see. So, I tried to find the most inconspicuous place I could but still have access to it for emptying. Here's where I ended up. I routed hosed in as good a manor as I could to hide them. The hose fittings are on each side of the frame tube. That took a little doing. The bracket is almost infinitely adjustable but........ the 3 or so degrees it won't clock to is exactly where you need it to be in order to straddle the frame tube. Ugh. So, I had to grind down the bracket a little to make it work. I'm using a hose clamp to attach to the frame tube. Maybe not the prettiest but not awful either. I'll revisit here to let you know how much oil it catches. I'll also probably put a little steel wool in the reservoir. I appreciate everyone's input. If anyone needs to know what catch can I ordered, let me know. I didn't take pictures of how I routed the hoses but it's pretty much how you'd probably do it. I did reuse the hose which attaches to the air cleaner box because it has that special bend. I finally found in my junk box, a 3/8 pipe which I used to connect the oem hose to my extra 3/8 hose. Okay, enough chatter. Here's some pics.

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        Attached Files

        Comment


        • #9
          I would have mailed you a Coors can for free! If you catch that much oil, you're putting too much oil in the engine. Most folks get rid of the AIS junk to clean up the front of the engine but you added more. My $3 filter under the fuel tank that is up hill from the vent port can't be seen. It never gets more than a few drops of oil.

          Comment


          • roadiemort
            roadiemort commented
            Editing a comment
            Lol, you're so mean. Who drinks that horse piss anyway?

        • #10
          Right after buying my first Road Star, 2001, I noticed a little oil on the paper air filter coming from the crankcase vent hose. One of the first mods I did was run a larger crank vent hose from the head up to the frame neck, then back down to the vent on the air box. I've done this on my other two RSs and haven't had any problems after doing this.
          Every bike has a little bit of blow-by passing by the rings, some more than others, due to wear and ring gaps. If, or when, doing piston rings, make sure to gap the rings to the minimum tolerance, or buy the high dollar Gapless Rings. This will give you better HP and less blow-by.

          Comment


          • #11
            You added an ugly external catch can instead of just rerouting under the frame. The best look is to get rid of the AIS, the fuel pump and bracket get rid of the stock airbox use a small air filter and you have a much better looking engine.
            LET'S RIDE

            Comment


            • #12
              Shores and Lugnut. First of all, you guys are jerks. Second of all, you clearly don’t understand the purpose of crankcase ventilation. The reason for tapping into the intake stream allows for harmful blow by gasses to be removed from the crankcase. Simply opening it up to the atmosphere, while allowing for pressure relief, won’t allow circulation within the crankcase. At least not to the same extent. Do whatever the heck you want to with your bike. I’ll do what I want to with mine. You know where you can stick your Coors can, Shores.

              Comment


              • Duke
                Duke commented
                Editing a comment
                Let me say, these guys are not jerks. They are just trying to help you and give their opinion on your situation. If you knew these guys, then you'd know that they joke around a little, but also are also trying to help you. If you feel criticized, just take it, and remember that we are just trying to help. This forum has a bunch of good people as with most other forums.

            • #13
              Originally posted by schzx14 View Post
              Shores and Lugnut. First of all, you guys are jerks. Second of all, you clearly don’t understand the purpose of crankcase ventilation. The reason for tapping into the intake stream allows for harmful blow by gasses to be removed from the crankcase. Simply opening it up to the atmosphere, while allowing for pressure relief, won’t allow circulation within the crankcase. At least not to the same extent. Do whatever the heck you want to with your bike. I’ll do what I want to with mine. You know where you can stick your Coors can, Shores.
              Hahahahah....

              You're clearly an expert on road star maintenance and modification. You and the MMA fighter who recently joined should get together and have some quality Time discussing how to work on motorcycles. You're trying to reinvent the wheel on an archaic simple vtwin motorcycle that will last 300000 miles regardless of crank case ventilation. Your catch can looks ridiculous and clutters up the bike. You're doing a silly modification on something that does not need done. You can theorize and hypothesize all you want about crankcase ventilation it's just not that important on this particular motorcycle motorcycle reroute it let it vent underneath the bike and call it A-day. Have fun arguing with people that have been working on these bikes for 20 years and have got everything figured out perfectly. Just keep adding junk to your bike and make it look stupid that will be fine. You are certainly entitled to put all the doo-dads and gizmo's on it that you figured out from Amazon to make it a better motorcycle.
              LET'S RIDE

              Comment


              • Duke
                Duke commented
                Editing a comment
                Remember, to each their own LugNut, Some might think that's cool, and some don't. Each of us do things on our bikes that personalizes our bikes to what we think is cool. I love seeing different ideas from different people. I myself, like you, see some neat stuff out there, and some not so neat.

              • Brad_G
                Brad_G commented
                Editing a comment
                I agree with Duke here. We all do things for different reasons. I found his solution to be an interesting approach. Not one I would have taken as I thought others advice were easier/better options. But his ride is his ride. I don't mock others because what they want isn't what I want.

            • #14
              I guess I expected this to be a more friendly forum but I think I moved into the wrong neighborhood. I'll leave, no worries. All the best.

              Comment


              • #15
                Originally posted by schzx14 View Post
                I guess I expected this to be a more friendly forum but I think I moved into the wrong neighborhood. I'll leave, no worries. All the best.
                Thanks for dropping by and doing your own thing even though it was wrong. We appreciate when special people try hard. Always good to stop by argue with the more experienced people on a forum then cry about them not liking your ridiculous modification.
                LET'S RIDE

                Comment


                • #16
                  Btw....your name on here doesnt happen to refer to a schnitz racing (Indiana company) built zx-14 does it?
                  LET'S RIDE

                  Comment


                  • #17
                    There are a lot more choices for small nice looking catch cans or filters but you chose the ugliest cheapest option then stuck it where everyone would notice it and get the conversation going so you could talk for hours about it lol, sorry you're not that grown up yet that constructive criticizing still hurts you.

                    Comment


                    • #18
                       

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