Engine guys need your input: Working w/ maker of Rocker Lockers to make a R* version

[Pauli466]

Most of noise isn't the shaft moving in the saddles it's from the rocker arm wearing into the inner shaft, replacing just the inner rocker shaft will quiet the top end down considerably, i even thought of moveing the rear rocker shafts to the front and vice versa so tops of the shafts where the rocker arms had wore into them would now be on the bottom and the bottom where there's no wear will be at the top making a tighter fit to the arm, i couldn't believe how much the rocker arm wore into the inner shafts on mine. Had to be over 10 thousandth's of an inch easy, seeing as the inner shaft isn't all that expensive new i might just change them out, i think ill at least do the front cylinder as that's where most of the noise is

[Harley_Cruiser]

Dave yes that insert is sticking out just a tad it was a first prototype and was a little large for the hole and did not pull in all the way. The next set that I sent to Doc was a little smaller and pressed in much better, did not mushroom. His hole was 23/64 those would have worked better with 3/8.

[Harley_Cruiser]

Hey guys just joined, yea I am Steve from Rocker Lockers, Yes I ride a Harley, no I don’t want to hear it, get over it, sarcasm is another word for rude, LOL.
I have not read all the post so forgive me if I repeat something that has already been stated.
Yes HD has the same problem but on our bikes the hole for the bolt aligns with the notch in the rocker arm shaft. So the hole does not need to be drilled out.
There are several fixes that have been perused, Loctite the shaft where the shaft fits inside the tower, this has worked pretty well but is not a permanent fix.
An old fix was to drill and tap for a set screw in the tower to lock the shaft. This worked well but weakens the tower and had several break at the screw especially with high lift cams with stronger springs. Some put the set screw on top some on the side.
Maybe a set screw from below would work.
Yes a shoulder bolt would cure the problem ( larger shoulder smaller thread size) but finding a shoulder bolt the right size could be hard to do at least for the HD, it is 5/16 thread with 11/32 shaft, custom made is very expensive, (8 bucks a peace min order required)
You could fabricate some sort of a lock to go into the tunnel of the shaft, a clamp of some type, but that can get to complicated.
That is why the inserts have been the most practical yes there are several who have copied my design but Mine are the original.
The standard Rocker Lockers will not work, the Twin Cam are to small and the Evo the taper is not long enough so I have made up some custom to fit Doc’s bike.
To fit the notch in the shaft the bolt hole needs to be drilled out to 3/8, however we were concerned about removing so much material from the tower. I feel that the bolt will reinforce the hole enough but that is not my call. For doc’s bike he is going to drill the tower hole out to 23/64 and there will still be a small amount of play but very little rotation of the shaft.
Personally if it was my bike I would go to 3/8 but if it broke I would only have myself to blame.
Doc does not have a drill press, so he is going to use a hand held drill that is another reason why we decided to go 23/64, it is easy to go off of center with hand held. A dill press would be much better assuring a perpendicular hole if you went the 3/8.
These are custom size and I am only making them up as they are requested, I am asking 20+5 for shipping. It takes me an hour or so to make them plus cost of material.
Yes the rotation and tick does not hurt anything other than being annoying and yes it can be very annoying.
Yes even if your shaft is tight in the tower don’t let this fool you, it can still rotate and tick when it get hot. Due to the coefficient of expansion of the different metals aluminum expands far more than that of steel so when plate is cold the shaft will be a press fit when the rocker arm plate gets hot the steal shaft will fall out of the aluminum tower.
We have found that most bikes when new do not have a ticking problem but when they get some miles the shaft loosens up starts ticking about 50k (not all). Also with any high lift cam the extra pressure on the shaft can cause it to start rotating, or any top end work seems to start the tick.
Anyway that about covers it if I think of anything or any questions please ask.

[Doc_V]

Steve has my spare and I probably won't be pulling my towers until late next week. If you haven't found out by then I'll let you know.

[Doc_V]

Don't know if this has anything to do with it, but it looks like it might be an oil feed to the head. The rocker tower sits right on top of it.




There's another port just like it on the underside of the rocker tower.

[davej]

I'll check to see when I get my plate in the mail.

[Duke]

Dave or Doc, can you look at oil passages to see where the oil is flowing thru the rocker plate? I was wondering if the 1700's oil line is for cooling the heads, and the push rods are the oiling for the rockers like the 1600's.

[Doc_V]

I haven't installed them yet. I don't have a drill press and don't want to take any chances. I'm going to look for a local machine shop next week.

[davej]

If they fit good and take up the slop I'll need the info on how to get a set.

[davej]

How do they fit? The measurements I posted are the Harley RL measurements. Also Give or take.

[Doc_V]

Dave, the 1700 RLs arrived. My digital calipers are cheap, so those measurements are give or take.

• OD is 9.02 x 9.65
• ID is 8.15 x 8.81
• Length 31.85 mm

[davej]

I see it sticking out, cutting it down shouldn't be an issue at all. the HD rocker locker is 9.2od x 8.8od and 21.8 long, ID is 8.4x7.9

[davej]

I understand what you are saying now about the 1700's I didn't know they were different until now. In this case the rocker locker might be the easiest fix if they can be made to fit. When I had mine apart for the head work I didn't pay any attention to whether the bolt had a thru hole or not.

[Doc_V]

I like Duke's bolt idea, it's pretty slick for the 1600s, but at the end of the day, it'd require a separate larger bolt for the 1700, and you'd still have to drill out the tower to take up the play in the shaft groove; the end result would be pretty much the same as the Rocker Locker. Seems like 6 of 1, half dozen of another.

[Doc_V]

After looking at your photos, I think your right, the 1700 bolt does look to be bigger than the 1600. The design of the two are definitely different. As far as the cut-out, I believe it's 7mm, but I'll have to double check.

[Doc_V]

Steve sent me that photo. That's the spare rocker tower I sent him to test on, and if you look close, the brass sleeve is sticking out a little.

[davej]

Where did you get the one in the prototype pic? I have a set of the Rocker Lockers for the HD's.

[Duke]

Hey Doc, can you tell if the cut-outs on the new shaft and old shaft pictured are the same size? I'm also wondering if the retainer bolt is a different size?
By looking at your pictures the retainer bolt looks to be a different size. The bolt that Smokescreens is making up, might not work for the 1700s.

[Doc_V]

Not sure. In his last email he mentioned he sent me out a set for the R* to test. I'll measure them when they arrive. I have a feeling, even if the diameter is the same, the length is likely different. Apparently the first one he tested for the R* mushroomed, so he had to trim them.

[davej]

So does the rocker locker for the HD's fit the 1700's???