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  • Cleaned Carb now won’t start?

    Hoping to get some help on this.

    Here’s the backstory:

    Have a 2006 Roadstar 1700 which I’ve been building into a bobber for some time and for the most part pretty much done. Had some electrical issues but I believe they are sorted out (or so I hope).

    I went pumpless and installed the correct #3.0 grizzly float valve. Adjusted my float height, didn’t change out the jet as it was running fine before on a dynajet #175 (one cylinder was lean and one was rich, kinda weird but was thinking of upping the jet size although I didn’t.) other than that I cleaned the carb, didn’t change anything else.

    now when I crank the bike I can occasionally get it to fire but it will cough out the tail pipe black smoke and cough out the carb as well sometimes shooting a mist of fuel out. I’ve check my spark and it’s a healthy blue spark with new plugs, replaced the battery full charged. And I know the compression is good. Also getting fuel to cylinders because plugs do come out wet and it’s puffing so much black smoke.

    my questions is maybe I accidentally bumped the idle screw when cleaning the carb, could this cause this issue? Or maybe the air/fuel is off? Seems strange as I didn’t change anything else including anything internally with the motor. Or is it possible that I have the connections on my ignition coils backwards? Causing a less than powerful enough spark?

    on a side note my battery cables do get very hot when cranking, the motor seems the kinda chug to turn over (checked decompression solenoid, it’s working), starter also gets very hot (obviously). I’ve heard a lot of people upgrade to a larger starter cable due to this so maybe it’s not out of the ordinary.

    hopefully someone can chime in and has a bit more information on what could be wrong?

    thanks

  • #2
    I would have pulled a plug for inspection after the failed attempt. Sounds flooded.

    Comment


    • #3
      Pull the plugs and spray them with starting fluid or carb cleaner and dry them with a torch. If they come out wet that is the no start issue. While they are out crank the engine over to clear out any fuel that may be in the cylinders. Now back to the 1 rich and 1 lean. That usually means you have a air leak on the manifold to head connection on the cylinder that is lean. It also means that the jetting will be indicated at the rich side so you are rich. If you are using a 175 main jet and running rich it is unlikely that it is a Dynajet. That size and running rich tells me that it is a Mikuni main jet. You also said you reset the float. Why and what did you change it from and to?
      Now the battery cables. I make and sell the upgraded cables that you have heard about. I have a set made and ready to ship they are $45 shipped in the U.S. PM me if you would like to purchase a set.

      Comment


      • #4
        I have pull the plugs repeatedly and let the cylinders dry out. Just seems to be getting way too much fuel and will not start.

        I will look for a vacuum leak on the intake manifold, see if in can hunt that issue down.

        It is a dynajet because I have the kit it came from. I had changed the jet to a 200 after putting the carb back in but due to starting issues i figured I would go back to what I had before when the bike was running fine. Still obviously having those starting issues though.

        davej I would actually like tom order those battery cables off you!

        Comment


        • davej
          davej commented
          Editing a comment
          If the 175 jet you are using is a dynojet brand it would be a size between a 162.5 and 165 mikuni main jet. That would be extremely lean and run terrible on a 1700. It would barley run at all at any speed. If you use a Mikuni main jet you would be using a 172.5 on a 1700 and a 167.5 on a 1600.

      • #5
        The only reason I adjusted the float was because I followed the going pumpless thread on this site after changing my float valve. As i read the float level for this year of road star should be 3-5mm above the sealing surface of the bowl so that's where I tried to set it.

        Comment


        • #6
          With enough fuel in the cylinder to wet/foul the plugs my guess is that something went wrong when you adjusted it. I always tell people to leave the float alone. The larger float valve should be more than enough fuel flow to keep up with gravity flow instead of a pump. Adjusting the float is where most people screw their carbs up. The factory setting should have already been about 4mm above the mating surface.

          Comment


          • #7
            Cubo55 I sent you a private message about the battery cables.

            Comment


            • #8
              Well i can easily change the float back to factory setting. just have to bend the tab back to straight. Do you believe thats what is causing this issue?

              Comment


              • Bikerron
                Bikerron commented
                Editing a comment
                One way to find out.

            • #9
              Cubo55 check your messages again

              Comment


              • #10
                I'll try to put the float level back. How many turns out does the PMS typically need to be for a starting point?

                Comment


                • davej
                  davej commented
                  Editing a comment
                  2 1/2 turns out if you are using a # 40 mikuni pilot jet.

              • #11
                Float too high for sure had mine setup at 5mm upside down and would start without choke yours sound like it is even higher and flooding. Check out my thread “tank vent pumpless” and directions on how I did mine are there and confirmed works same as before I had pump installed.

                Comment


                • davej
                  davej commented
                  Editing a comment
                  have you rode your yet after correcting the float? If so is everything OK with it?

                • Jclevesque
                  Jclevesque commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Hi Dave yes I updated my post and all is normal. Starts with enricher pulled and all seems as normal was with pump installed. Did a series of wot rolling constant uphill roads and no starvation issues. Final level was 9-10 mm from bowl surface to flat lip of float. It was done lightly blowing thru a tube hooked up to fuel intake tube. It looked nearly identical with that old post to which your level was noted as 3/8” above float bowl.

                • Cubo55
                  Cubo55 commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Okay thanks so much! I will check it out!

              • #12
                Guys I have no clue what else to do or what else to troubleshoot. I’ve adjusted my float again according to jclevesque. Pretty much exactly 5mm, pics attached.

                i think it was a high float initially because I was able to get the bike running with enricher pulled for about 5 seconds but then would quit. Tried again today and could not get the thing to fire more than a couple times. Tank is on reserve and I’m confident the bowl is getting enough fuel. Still seems to be running rich. So I pulled the float again and bent the tab to what I faintly remember stock setting to be (tab completely straight with bowl tang). Could not get it to fire at all after that, so set it back to 5mm. The carb at 15 degree slope without the plunger pressing down on the vibration plunger (float needle) the float seems perfectly parallel to bowl face.

                Took the carb apart and verified that the Dyna jet 175 is in place, the recommended pilot jet is in place as per dyna jet kit. Needle is set to 4 from the top. PMS is turned out exactly 3 turns from closed. (Also tried 2.5 turns, and 3.5 turns). I’ve pulled the plugs about a 1000 times to verify spark and let cylinder dry out as well as clean plugs. They are brand new iridium plugs. Also worth mentioning my bike has full Vance and Hines as well as a open k&n air filter.

                I am getting a lot of coughing and some fuel coming from the mouth of the carb. I know I’m getting it to fore once occasionally, and I do see some smoke coming from the exhaust.

                bike was running perfectly fine last year with the dyna jet setting I mentioned with the pipes and air filter. I don’t know what is different now and why it won’t start/run. Literally the only thing I changed motor/ fuel delivery wise from last year is the gravity feed, grizzly float valve and tried adjusting the float to which we determined was intitially too high.

                can someone help?? I’m going nuts and getting super frustrated.

                Comment


                • #13
                  Your float level is wrong if you are pumpless. 9 to 10mm and check by blowing lightly thru a tube. At close to 5mm mine wouldnt even start with enricher pulled out.

                  Comment


                  • Cubo55
                    Cubo55 commented
                    Editing a comment
                    9-10mm? I never read that anywhere for pumpless. That seems like a very low float level. I will give it a try though.

                  • Jclevesque
                    Jclevesque commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Check post 11.2 above

                  • Cubo55
                    Cubo55 commented
                    Editing a comment
                    From what you wrote it sounds like to same method as the picture I posted in post #12

                • #14
                  You didn't by any chance mess with the spark plugs. You didn't leave spark plug wires off. If you did you may have blown a coil. P don't ask me how I know. Also check to make sure that your throttle cables are not worn down through the black outside and are grounding the positive lead to the coil. Right at the coil rightside

                  Comment


                  • Cubo55
                    Cubo55 commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Well only when I would be testing the spark of the spark plugs. Nope throttle cables are good. I mean it is possible that maybe I have the coil wires backwards? I think even then the bike would still start though.

                • #15
                  are you sure the plug wires are on the correct plugs? Also make sure the battery is completely charged.

                  Comment


                  • Cubo55
                    Cubo55 commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Ya plug wire are correct because i never removed them, also the batterys are charged because I bought a new one and have been charging them while I use the other one back and forth

                • #16
                  how did you pull the plugs out without removing the sparkplug wires off the plugs?
                  you need fuel spark and compression to run. we know nothing happened to compression from taking the carb off so eliminate that. now you either don't have fuel or to much fuel fouling the plugs or you don't have spark or spark at the right time. Timing didn't change unless the sparkplug wires are on the wrong plugs. If there is good spark at the plug and there is fuel then the spark is at the wrong time. If you don't have fuel turn on the petcock.lol if you have too much fuel then the plug will foul and there is still something wrong in the carb. maybe pull the grizzly valve back out and check to see if the oring got cut during installation. That would give an indication of a stuck float/ to high set float and fuel foul the plugs

                  Comment


                  • Cubo55
                    Cubo55 commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Oh sorry i meant i never removed them off the bike to the point where i wouldn't know where they would go back. I would place the plug cap on top of the rocker cover each time i removed the plug to make sure I didn't mix them up

                  • davej
                    davej commented
                    Editing a comment
                    check my edit on this post

                  • Cubo55
                    Cubo55 commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Ya i pulled it apart multiple times today and inspected the float valve all seems fine. It is definitely a fuel problem, the carb is coughing back fuel and air which seems odd. I never touched the spark ignition timing or anything to do with internal timing of the motor. Plugs are coming out black when it does start firing, I clean them everytime before I put them back in. Jclevesque recommended I try 9-10mm on float height instead of 5mm like measured in the picture i posted. I guess that is my next step. Just seems so strange to me that the carb could be out this much.

                • #17
                  when he suggested the 9mm it is done differently.

                  Comment


                  • #18
                    https://www.roadstarclinic.com/forum...-vent-pumpless

                    and this thread

                    https://redirect.viglink.com/?format...tstart%2C10%2F

                    In the 2nd thread look at my post and explanation of how to take that measurement

                    Comment


                    • Cubo55
                      Cubo55 commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Both links are the same, as well i cant seem to find information on what the "odo method" means. I think I know what you mean now by float being level at 3/8" and that's the interface level of sealing

                    • davej
                      davej commented
                      Editing a comment
                      The ODO method was just another method using 2 points on the carb to line the float bottom to. I will look to see if I can find it.

                  • #19
                    All is noted in that first post how I ended up setting it correctly. It is fairly simple to do. The key is to lightly blow not too much. Without the pump you only have the weight / height of fuel.

                    Comment


                    • Cubo55
                      Cubo55 commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Ok ill be doing this tomorrow. This bike better start or I'm kicking it in the ditch

                  • #20
                    First off I want to thank everyone who has responded to this thread and given me their input on this issue. I really appreciate it.

                    With that being said I want to boot This thing in the dumpster and start again haha.

                    I reset the carb this time using the method you guys described to 9-10mm.

                    i removed the carb/ drained it. Set up side down, attached hose to fuel inlet, blew into the tube and adjusted the float to exactly where the float needle seals and can not hear or feel air leaving the valve. This was set to 9.15mm, I verified it 5 times because I’m sick of pulling the carb out. When float was released by my finger and let hanging down (carb is upside down on the bench) it measured 4.19mm or such from mating surface. I installed the carb, opened fuel valve and checked float level with the tube connected to the carb drain. It measure exactly 5mm maybe 6mm flush with the tab (the tab that is exactly 5mm). Tried to start the bike and it barely fired once or twice puffs out the exhaust. Got a lot of coughing and spitting fuel from the carb mouth which tells me the float level is still to high. Bike will still not start or run.


                    Is it possible my bike could be that much different from everyone else’s? To the point where maybe I need to run my float level at the mating surface of the bowl or lower? I’m going to try to set the bowl lean and maybe I can get the bitch to run. I live in Canada and have like 2 months a year to ride. Already halfway through the first month so not too confident with this thing.
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