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  • Starter continues to spin ?

    Have a goofy situation. This Spring for my first start up of the season,I noted a spark when I had the seat off and hit the starter button. Bike wouldn't start. I noticed the spark I'd seen coming from about the area area of the starter relay. Replaced the relay and the bike was able to start normally. On my first extended ride of the year when I turned off the ignition at a gas station, the starter was engaged. Hit the kill button, continued to spin the starter. Turned the key to the on postion and the engine started immediatly. So, I decided to try and make a run for home. About 10 minutes of riding and I lost all indicators, speedo, tach, everything, the whole dash was out. Then, the bike died. Tried to restart and the battery was a dead as a door nail. Trailered it home and got it to a shop. After a full recharge of the battery the mechanic couldn't replicate the issue. Previously, after I had replaced the original relay ( 2001 ) it was fine around town. Is there a possibility that somehow after an extended ride something heats up and causes this issue? The mechanic threw in another new starter relay, but I'm hesitant to go on a long scoot. When my bike died out in the boonies, I was lucky my buddy had a trailer available. (dammit, he was riding a H-D so of course the joke was about Jap bikes breaking down on the road) Just wondering if anyone else has experienced this, and if so, what the issue turned out to be.
    Thanks in advance for any info.

  • #2
    Since you lost all electrical and then it mysteriously came back ok after the bike shop recharged the battery i'd be looking for an issue with main elec system relay,a main ground or hot/positive wire oiff battery issue and or possible issue with a pinch wire issue in wiring harness too as a good starting place.

    Since battery went dead i'd also verifying charging system is working properly too.(look for approx 14v's @ battery with motor @ approx 2500rpm,approx 13.6v-13.8v @ idle.) because the battery going flat dead like it did would also cause ther bike/motyor to shut down like it did too.

    If charging system checks out ok then i'd have the battery load tested to ensure it's not crapping out you too,ensure battery is fully charged and then has sat idle for at least 3-4hrs before load testing it.

    Good luck.

    Scott

    Comment


    • ZenSPIKE
      ZenSPIKE commented
      Editing a comment
      Thanks Scott.
      I think the starter staying engaged was the issue with the battery going dead. It was bench tested at the shop and it was cool. ( new just before this happened ) I'm leaning towards you thinking it's in the wirieng.
      Again, thanks for your input.

  • #3
    When you replaced the relay, Did you replace the relay with a factory oem part? I have heard the cheap chinese relays are only good for a few starts

    Comment


    • ZenSPIKE
      ZenSPIKE commented
      Editing a comment
      No Sir,
      I went aftermarket, probably a poor choice. The mechanic replaced my replacement with another aftermarket unit that he claimed had a very good reputation. Might bite the bullet and order an OEM. Damn, they are like 4 times the cost of aftermarket, but for peace of mind, I think I'll go that route.
      Thanks

  • #4
    Yup gotta go with OEM on that stuff. Daveto nailed it.

    Comment


    • #5
      Thanks.... maybe lesson learned. I was just hoping someone could explain the mechanics of it. Like, what would cause the relay to remain energized? Just cheap manufacture ?

      Comment


      • TimB
        TimB commented
        Editing a comment
        It's Chinese shit!

      • daveto
        daveto commented
        Editing a comment
        The metal used is not capable of the amperage draw and the internal relay “switch” and welds itself together making contact which completes the circuit at all times instead of being activated to energize the circuit.

    • #6
      The relay sticking open or maybe a faulty ignition button? I’ve never had the issue before on any bike.

      Comment


      • ZenSPIKE
        ZenSPIKE commented
        Editing a comment
        I've never heard of it either, nor had my old school mechanic.

    • #7
      If new OEM starter relay doesnt fix it an " intermittent " shorted wire or defective/shorted button in starting system can cause the starter to keep running at times but not all the time which can be a real PIA to track down.

      Scott

      Comment


      • #8
        BTW,on Chinese parts,i do a lot of work on classic cars and a lot of the repop parts for classic cars are mfg'd in China and more often then not they either don't fit right,new parts crap out shortly after putting into srv'c or are defective brand new right out of the box.

        I have hit the same issue with other parts mfg'd elsewhere i have used in every day daily use cars like for example just last wk i went thru 2 rblt starters from a large chain auto part store that were reman'd in Indonesia which were NG & had to go elsewhere to get a reman starter that worked properly.

        Thats just a small example my 1st hand exp with auto parts mfg'd off shore in China & Indonesia.

        Scott

        Comment


        • #9
          I would rather have a good used OEM than a new chinese waste of time / money part. I have seen it over and over on another forum that I am on with another bike.

          Comment


          • ZenSPIKE
            ZenSPIKE commented
            Editing a comment
            Funny, but I put the original relay back in, started right up, and after 20 minutes of driving.... same effing thing. I'm thinking it's gotta be a short. I'm wondering how big a job it is to just run new wires from the starter to the relay?

        • #10
          On the old clinic there was an article about starter relay replaced with a ford relay. Anyone have or remember the part number. I've searched and don't see in the tech section.

          Comment


          • #11
            PM aussie john, he has done it.......
            not all those who wander are lost......

            Comment


            • #12
              Originally posted by Makcap View Post
              On the old clinic there was an article about starter relay replaced with a ford relay. Anyone have or remember the part number. I've searched and don't see in the tech section.

              The old Ford SW3 solenoid is added to the mix. Get them anywhere.

              Comment


              • #13
                Thanks Bikerron

                Comment


                • #14
                  If both the old and the new relay cause the same symptoms, odds are the relay is not the problem. Was that 3 relays total? If a fused relay was the problem, the starter would turn continuously with the key on every time. Also, the starter to relay wire would be low on the suspect list, as that just carries hot to the starter and you know that works. Sounds like a short feeding power to the relay sometimes.

                  Comment


                  • #15
                    So why do you have to leave the stock relay in there? And if putting the ford relay in can you use the stock relay that spins the starter all the time? Just had this happen a few minutes ago. Thanks to the clinic i knew what was happening
                    It's not that life is so short, it's just that you're dead for so long.---unknown.

                    Comment


                    • #16
                      It’s using the stock relay just to energize the electromagnetic coil in the Ford relay. With the low amp draw through the Yamaha relay to it should last forever.

                      “….can you use the stock relay that spins the starter all the time?”

                      A relay that welds itself closed is pretty much done in. The contacts are burnt and compromised. It won’t be trying to pass the high current levels it was designed to do, but passing less than an amp through toasted contacts may be futile.

                      Pretty detailed write up by Dave.

                      https://www.roadstarclinic.com/forum...arter-solenoid

                      Comment


                      • #17
                        Oh. Thank you
                        It's not that life is so short, it's just that you're dead for so long.---unknown.

                        Comment


                        • #18
                          The best way to extend the life of your starter relay is to lower the current that flows through it. One of the best ways to do this is to always start the engine in neutral. When I first got my R* I noticed a tendency for it to lurch forward a bit when starting in gear and holding the clutch. Apparently many other R*s do this too. This makes it harder for the starter to start the engine. The extra load and the slower turning starter motor significantly increases the current through the relay contacts. Excessive current is what causes contacts to burn and ultimately weld together.
                          So, 99.44% of the time I remember to be in neutral while starting, and hopefully I'll never have a starter relay problem.

                          Comment


                          • roadiemort
                            roadiemort commented
                            Editing a comment
                            My experience seems a low battery with low current welded my points together.

                          • Bikerron
                            Bikerron commented
                            Editing a comment
                            A well tuned engine and knowing the procedure to get said engine fired off quickly, hot or cold, lessens the cranking times. Laying on the button for more than 3-4 seconds is just creating problems for the whole chain of parts from the battery to the starter.

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