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Hooked up new tach now front cylinder is not firing

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  • Hooked up new tach now front cylinder is not firing

    Hi
    I’m a newbie to the sport. Just retired in March and got my motorcycle endorsement. I bought a 2004 Yamaha 1700 Silverado and love it. I’m a fair mechanic and just trouble shot and replaced a faulty V regulator. Bike ran fantastic. I decided to add a V meter to monitor the charging system and it came integrated with a tach which I really didn’t need but I thought I’d hook it up anyway. Apparently in the process I made an error as now the front cylinder does not fire. It’s probably something fairly simple but many minds make troubleshooting easier.

    Knowns:

    The V meter/ tach is 3 wire. +/- and a green that the manufacturer says goes to the low voltage + input of the coil ( every other tach I’ve installed on autos went to the negative ). Anyway, I spliced it into the + low voltage input line at the coil with a butt crimp connector. Now after starting both the volts and tach work but the ignition coil doesn’t.

    I rigged her to run without the fuel tank installed and she idles rough. I pulled all 4 plug wires and got a strong spark off of the rears and nothing off the front. The front cylinder remains cool. Obviously it’s the front where I installed the tach that has the issue. As everything was fine before the answer has to lie in adding the tach. It’s also baffling that the tach works fine so its getting a signal from somewhere ( Most likely the ignition module ) but why is power not getting to the coil from this same line?

    Is the tach somehow shorting it out?
    Is the butt connection causing to much resistance?

    Any guidance in how to resolve this issue in a logical progression would be greatly appreciated.




  • #2
    Have you removed your tach from the circuit and rechecked for spark…
    all tachs that tap the coil use the negative side of the coil… the ECU is grounding that line to allow the coil to generate a spark at timed intervals..

    since you can troubleshoot a voltage regulator… i assume you can use a voltmeter… you might want to confirm you are on the proper side of the low voltage coil winding…

    and measure your coil winding resistance to confirm you didn’t inadvertantly damage it…

    Comment


    • #3
      Thank you very much. As I mentioned above my experience with tachs from autos is that they go to the negative side of the coil. Perhaps I am confused by the manufacturers language as it’s no doubt a Chinese import.


      The language on #(3) below is confusing to me. But I will switch the input to the negative side.

      It says:

      Features:
      【Wiring Instructions】: (1) RED wire is connected to the positive accessory wire so it work only when bike is running [no battery drain ; (2) BLACK wire is connected to a negative wire or chassis ground ; (3) GREEN is the SIGNAL wire, it goes to the ignition induction line or the ignition coil input connection [NOT THE ONE THAT GO TO THE SPARK PLUG]​

      Comment


      • #4
        Get rid of the junk cheap voltmeter tach. Absolutely no reason for it on this bike. Buy a good multimeter check things that way.
        LET'S RIDE

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Lug Nut View Post
          Get rid of the junk cheap voltmeter tach. Absolutely no reason for it on this bike. Buy a good multimeter check things that way.
          Sounds to me like he has a tachometer that is also a voltmeter. He's not using it as a voltmeter he just wants the tachometer to work. He still needs a plain and simple tackometer as well as a voltmeter to check out what he's doing.

          Comment


          • #6
            I thought about a tachometer one time but honestly for what reason? If you want to set your idol then you need a good digital tach Not one of the analog ones that bounces all over the place and isn't very accurate. And you shift by ear on V-Twin you don't look at the tach. At least I can't imagine wanting to do that. I bought and worked on so many bikes that had extra electrical doodads that cause problems I'm very averse to adding things like that that don't actually perform any useful purpose.Unless of course it's a dildo spike air cleaner with LED lights wrapped around it Then I'd be down.
            LET'S RIDE

            Comment


            • Tcontrol
              Tcontrol commented
              Editing a comment
              “Dildo spike air cleaner with LED lights wrapped around it”…..

              You owe me a cup of coffee and a new shirt…!

          • #7
            I added a cheap digital tech to my fuel injected bike so I could just monitor that it's indeed idling at 900 rpm. There's no idle adjustment on my bike. I can't even see it when I'm riding.

            Comment


            • #8
              Good point. I get more from the afr guage than the tach. But mines part of the riser which I needed anyways.

              Comment


              • #9
                I know mechanically we like to monitor the status of our engines. But we're riding one of the most reliable engines probably ever built lol. The thought of learning about AFR or oil pressure or RPM once everything is set properly just doesn't seem justified. However we all like to tinker. I just have seen so many post about people adding things and then having them go bad or cause other problems. Oil pressure gauge is especially. Duke makes a really nice kit but other than that there's a lot of people that just started hooking up a gauge at different points and ended up with leaks and inaccurate readings.
                LET'S RIDE

                Comment


                • #10
                  I suffer from tinkeritis. It has lead me to another condition it’s official name escapes me but I’ve contained it to two motorcycles. Well, one motorcycle and one scooter. I’m still in denial that I have scooteritis.

                  Comment


                  • #11
                    What tach are you using?
                    I've never heard of hooking up the signal wire to the + (positive) side of the coil. The coils have constant positive voltage going into them as long as the ignition is turned on. The negative side of the coil is controlled by the ECU, and is the signal wire, (orange, or gray).

                    Comment


                    • #12
                      Originally posted by Duke View Post
                      What tach are you using?
                      I've never heard of hooking up the signal wire to the + (positive) side of the coil. The coils have constant positive voltage going into them as long as the ignition is turned on. The negative side of the coil is controlled by the ECU, and is the signal wire, (orange, or gray).
                      Also would want to know what connector is being used. On the bikes I bought with a tach installed...it was a simply connector that fit into the neg coil terminal and allowed another wire to be connected. If your hooking to positive side you might be supplying a ground at that point with the tach body??
                      LET'S RIDE

                      Comment


                      • #13
                        Thanks
                        I appreciate your help. You definitely know what you’re talking about. I went over my wiring and actually had it correct. I was connected into the orange wire. Thats why tach was working as its connected to the rear cylinder and that actually is working.

                        What’s weirding me out now is that the front cylinder that I did not touch is the one not working now. It worked fine before I attached tach.

                        This is my first bike so I’m learning. I assume since one cylinder is firing fine that its not a fuse, switch or the pick up coil. Do you agree with this?

                        IMO it has to be the electronic ignitor the coil or wiring. If I pull the plug wires on the front cylinder while it’s running I get no spark arc. I get a strong spark off the rear.

                        Resistance on the coil seems in limits.

                        Where would you start troubleshooting from here. I did run a new supplemental wiring harness so I may have disturbed a connection. Or is it likely that hooking up the tach coukd cause the ignitor ECM to suddenly stop firing the front cylinder?

                        Any ideas or tips would be greatly appreciated.

                        thanks





                        Comment


                        • #14
                          Remove the sparkplug cap. There is a resistor inside of the cap that may have went bad. You should be able to check for spark at the wire before the resistor with the cap removed. Some of the guys a few years back would just replace the resistor with a pc of 2 ga copper cable. also clip about 1/4 inch of the sparkplug wire end before reinstalling the cap.

                          Comment


                          • #15
                            Can anyone confirm that the proper wiring hook ups on the coils are from far left (outside) red/blue, orange ( inside ). Then right side red/blue ( inner ) and grey far right outside?

                            It’s depicted that way on the schematic I have but I want to make sure it’s depicted correctly as the coils themselves appear to have no outward markings.

                            Comment


                            • #16
                              Click image for larger version

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                              The 1700 wire schematic indicates a Black/Red wire 12 volt DC hot on both coils and a black/orange trigger on one coil and a black/white trigger on the other…

                              if you have a voltmeter… it is easy to check regardless of the wire color…
                              one wire on each coil is +12 volts when key on and bike ready to start… confirm this please..
                              the second wire is grounded via the ECU to initiate the spark… you can check this by measuring 12 volts .. engage the starter and check that the ECU wire triggers to a low voltage reading.. this is a timed event so pulling a spark plug from each cylinder will allow you to turn the motor over using the starter without building compression…
                              it does not matter at all which wire is on which terminal on the low voltage side of the coil…. ie:.. the low voltage side is a coil of wire with no polarity observed…..see attached pic from 1700 service manual…

                              the low voltage side can be ohmed out as per the manual and what you have tested already… if you are triggering correctly and do not have a spark.. then check the high voltage lead/spark plug cap… internal resistor as mentioned and possibly remove the spark plug cap and trim the wire back a small amout and re-make the connection… easier done than explained…

                              Comment


                              • #17
                                Thanks
                                I’ll play with it tomorrow

                                Comment


                                • #18
                                  In DC signaling, the positive is often referred to as the Hi and the negative as the Lo.


                                  Wherever you go in life, ride there if at all possible.

                                  Comment

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