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  • How tight is tight?

    How tight is the final drive pully nut? Thanks.

  • #2
    As tight as you can get it plus locking tab washer on some plus red locktight. That tight! lol.

    Comment


    • #3
      No red. Maybe blue. 10-4. Rodger that.

      Comment


      • #4
        use red!!!

        Comment


        • #5
          My book shows 61 foot lbs. I use the blue.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Duke View Post
            My book shows 61 foot lbs. I use the blue.
            why? red is stronger and the same price. It can all be loosened with the proper tool if needed.

            Comment


            • Duke
              Duke commented
              Editing a comment
              I have just used the blue. Not telling him what to use.
              Does it really matter which color is used, when using the locking tab washer? The service manual doesn't show using any loctite.

            • Doc_V
              Doc_V commented
              Editing a comment
              Unfortunately, the lock washers are no guarantee the nut won't come loose. Blue certainly helps, but given the R*'s history with pulley nuts working themselves loose and shredding splines, It's definitely worth using the red to be safe. .

          • #7
            I used red. I'd rather torch the shaft to remove the nut on purpose than have it loosen on its own.
            Manuals, Roadwing, other stuff
            PGR
            PGT MT

            Comment


            • #8
              Mine loosened on me... I went 61 ft lbs, and Loctite RED. I put some on the pulley, the shaft, the washers, and the nut! And, no, it's never come loose since!

              Comment


              • #9
                Yep everyone here is correct. They loosen and the book calls for nothing but the washer. They must have written the book before they knew there was an issue and/or they don't want to recognize it as an issue. I lathered mine up with red, tightened it up with an impact and then bent 1 flat of the washer onto the flat of the nut and the other washer flat will span 2 flats around the hex point of the nut, Bent it around those 2 sides also and it will never move. I also marked it with a paint pen to see if it moves and never an issue. The only time it would have to come off is to replace the pulley, seal or shaft, but those only need to be replaced if the nut loosens and damages them. Well that won't happen.

                Comment


                • Duke
                  Duke commented
                  Editing a comment
                  No issues

              • #10
                Here's a really well done, step-by-step video if you've never done it. +1 on red Loctite

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlN9-nKZuIw

                Comment


                • Doc_V
                  Doc_V commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Excellent video, is that from Facebook?

                • roadiemort
                  roadiemort commented
                  Editing a comment
                  That's the guy that makes the Adams rack.

                • Ironman
                  Ironman commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Found it on youtube. No idea if it's on Facebook.

              • #11
                If davej says red, I'd use red .
                this is fairly large diameter nut and bolt my gut feeling tells me that red will behave like blue due to size, but I can't come up with a physical explanation for it,

                Comment


                • #12
                  Yeah i did red locktite and bent tabs same as davej and hasn't moved for a few years. Gonna check it out before spring riding season starts. Such a pain taking off the left side header to check but better to check out instead of tearing up the main output shaft threads and having to replace.

                  Comment


                  • #13
                    Here's my $0.02 on red vs blue coming from almost 5 decades wrenching bikes /cars and multiple R*'s along the way inc 2 of my own R*'s.

                    I have had issues almost every time i have used red locktite with either the bolt breaking or threads pulling out so now would not use it unless it was to hold a frigging prop on an airplane!/LOL!!

                    I had red lock tight hold flywheel bolts so tight on my BBC that the heads broke on 2 flywheel bolts and 1 of the heads broke on a pressure plate to flywheel bolt too and they were new ARP application specific bolts too & not older reused bolts.

                    And that wasn't the only time i had issues with red locktite when i had to dis-assemble bolts/nuts which is why i don't use it anymore.

                    I could just imagine how hard it would be to get the fine thread drive pulley not off a R* if you used red locktite on it.

                    As for using blue locktite on drive pulleys nuts on motorcycles in general and on drive pulley nuts on my 2 R*'s and 2-3 other r*'s i have worked on for other people over the yrs too which is the fact " i have never had any of then come loose again when using blue locktite,not 1 time" .

                    But i always make sure to properly clean the pulley nut & threads on the shaft prior to install with brakleen,then i apply proper amount of blue locktite to the shaft threads and then trq the drive pulley nut to spec and thats it.

                    It's key to get everything squeaky clean to ensure the blue loctite holds at it's full capacity and i can tell you from just going back from 33t to stock 32t drive pulley on my 2012R* the drive pulley nut i used blue locktite on when i installed the 33t drive pulley to test it out was SOB to get the blue loctite to break loose.

                    Again,i have not had 1 issue with a drive pulley nut coming loose using blue locktite on my kawasaki tripple 2strokes,my Kawi 900 & 1000 big fours or the multiple R*'s i have used blue loctite on drive pulley nuts on too with again " not 1 of them every coming loose over many miles and many yrs too ".

                    And i rode my tripples and big four Kawi's (approx 2x more HP then avg R*) very aggressive at times and drive pulley nuts nevr came loose using blue locktite.

                    Thats my 1st hand exp with Red vs Blue locktite over many yrs on mult motorcycles and car apps with the blue locktite never letting me/ down by coming loose and having mult issues mult times when trying to dis-assemble fastners i had used Red locktite on prior.

                    If memory serves me correct locktite mfg even stats on their website or on the pkg of Red locktite that they don't rec using it on fasteners you think you may want to dis-assemble any time soon (which should tell you something!) which i totally agree with from having mult negative experiences trying to disassemble fastners i have used red locktite on & breaking the bolts and or ripping threads out.

                    Scott

                    Comment


                    • roadiemort
                      roadiemort commented
                      Editing a comment
                      And after all that typing you forgot to mention a little heat applied to the nut before removal of nut with red Loktite on our R*'s would negate your removal issues and have yet to hear from anyone that snapped off the shaft threads trying. Your experiences are appreciated even after all these years of lengthy explanations lol. Red or Blue what to do?

                  • #14
                    scott, when you had trouble during your aforementioned use of red, did you use heat , or did u do it cold?

                    Comment


                    • roadiemort
                      roadiemort commented
                      Editing a comment
                      You can't use heat in every scenario Scott mentioned but we are talking about one specific application here.

                  • #15
                    Well, I think the question got answered, too... He said, "If memory serves me correct locktite mfg even states on their website or on the pkg of Red locktite that they don't rec using it on fasteners you think you may want to dis-assemble any time soon...." I took that very instruction on the packaging into account, and I said... I can't think of any reason I'd EVER want to remove this nut, as everything here should pretty much last the life of the bike! I'll replace a belt, if ever necessary, but that does not necessitate replacement of the pulley, hence the nut is more likely to STAY. Anyway, that's how I reasoned, and the nut is on with Red, and hasn't moved since... been a couple or three years now.

                    Comment


                    • Doc_V
                      Doc_V commented
                      Editing a comment
                      My thinking too... Unless the next guy wants to install a smaller pulley... But that's his problem. LOL

                  • #16
                    Originally posted by Questcap View Post
                    Well, I think the question got answered, too... He said, "If memory serves me correct locktite mfg even states on their website or on the pkg of Red locktite that they don't rec using it on fasteners you think you may want to dis-assemble any time soon...." I took that very instruction on the packaging into account, and I said... I can't think of any reason I'd EVER want to remove this nut, as everything here should pretty much last the life of the bike! I'll replace a belt, if ever necessary, but that does not necessitate replacement of the pulley, hence the nut is more likely to STAY. Anyway, that's how I reasoned, and the nut is on with Red, and hasn't moved since... been a couple or three years now.
                    No worry,anyone that properly uses red locktite on a R* drive pulley nut should never have an issue with it loosening up,same go's in my case for using blues loctite for same app.

                    But some guys that may be considering going to a 31t or 33t drive pulley will have a rude awakening if you use red loctite and then try to later remove the nut if they decided the dont like the 31t or 33t pulley they were testing out .

                    That was recently the case for me not liking the 33t pulley i tried this past summer and went back to the stock 32t pulley and had to remove the nut i used blue loctite on with stock trq spec that was much tougher to break loose then it was when i 1st removed the oem stock factory installed 32t pulley without any blue locktite.

                    Again,i have used the blue loctite on many bikes over many yrs getting much more abuse then a stock or mild modded R* could ever put on the drive pulley and never had one come loose properly using blue loctite which is key,if you have dirt/grease/little oil thread/nut ect the loctite will not hold properly or as strong.

                    Keep in mind here most of the guys posting on this subject have little or no exp using red loctite,i have had exp with it on more then 1 use and can tell you 1st hand it can be a nightmare if you have to remove a fastener with red loctite and again i have had mult examples of using blue loctite in the app of fastening drive pulley nuts on mult bikes inc mult R*'s and never had one loosen up in many yrs and miles use in mujch more demanding apps with 2x more power & vibration etc too.

                    I feel sorry for anyone that properly installed a drive pulley nut n on their R* after properly prepping/cleaning & using then applying/using Red loctite if they have to ever remove the pulley nut because i have mult experiences with it being very very hard hard to initially break loose and in some cases with finer threads after breaking loose i had it wreck the treads in the process of backing the bolt out or braking a stud when backing off a nut & or break the head off a quality ARP fastener too.

                    No disrespect intended to anyone posting in this thread but nobody should be giving advice to use Red loctite unless they have plenty of 1st hand experience using full strength max hold Red loctite because as i stated here mult times it can be a nightmare in some cases (not all) should you have to remove the fastener when there is better choice that will do the same job when properly applied being Blue Loctite that i also had good results with in the same app under much harsher conditions and in same R* app too.

                    I am trying to get the guys that have no 1st hand exp using red loctite on fastners to realize just what they getting into using Red loctite where even the the mfg themselves says to be careful with where you use it which is spot on advice from my exp using it having mult issues when trying to remove fasteners with red loctite on them in the past along with also having multiple examples of good results using blue loctite in the app like R* drive pulley nut where it works fine not loosening when applied properly(very clean & dry threads) & properly trq'd to factory spec too and you can break it loose if you need be to for example replace shaft seal & or try diff drive pulley which not uncommon at all to even a drive belt thats required if belt is damaged by a stone,et.

                    Happy motoring.,

                    Scott

                    Comment


                    • Doc_V
                      Doc_V commented
                      Editing a comment
                      it's definitely something to consider Scott. I've not personally had problems with the red, but then I rarely use it. I will, however, keep your comments in mind for the future. Thx sharing your exp with us.

                    • Questcap
                      Questcap commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Scott, I also appreciate your comments. I made the switch to 31 tooth pulleys some years back, and absolutely loved them... so, I can't see myself ever switching back, and was again, another one of the reasons why I chose to go with the Red... with the thought that I don't ever expect to have to remove this nut. And, if I do... well, where there's a will, there's a way... or, so I sure do hope!!!

                  • #17
                    As a heavy equipment mechanic for over 35 years I have plenty of experience with using red, blue, low strength purple and self wicking green. I wouldn't use red on a clutch housing bolt or something like that but a big important nut that can be impacted off or heated to get off if needed I would use it everytime. It really don't take much heat to break it free if needed. IMO the pulley nut is the exact type of application Red Loctite is intended for. Scott your misuse of red on some of the applications you mentioned above when working on a couple cars does not constitute telling someone that there basically isn't any application to use it on.

                    Comment


                    • #18
                      Originally posted by davej View Post
                      As a heavy equipment mechanic for over 35 years I have plenty of experience with using red, blue, low strength purple and self wicking green. I wouldn't use red on a clutch housing bolt or something like that but a big important nut that can be impacted off or heated to get off if needed I would use it everytime. It really don't take much heat to break it free if needed. IMO the pulley nut is the exact type of application Red Loctite is intended for. Scott your misuse of red on some of the applications you mentioned above when working on a couple cars does not constitute telling someone that there basically isn't any application to use it on.
                      ================================================== =================
                      DAVE,since you brought it up i too have plenty of wrenching exp having just shy of 5 decades 1st hand exp wrenching bikes & cars (rebuidling motors/restoring muscle cars etc) too & wasnt directly ref to you and would have said so if that was the case.

                      I was ref to guys giving rec using red loctite if they had little to no 1st hand exp with trying to remove faseners after they have used red loctite because it can be a real problem which i have seen and experienced st hand mult times which i was trying to ensure here understood what they were getting into using it if they had to remove the pulley nut at later date for shaft seal replacement,different pulley size,belt replacement due to belt damage,etc.

                      As for what you THINK is my wrong use/application of red loctite,i didnt use red loctite on any " clutch housing " like you said & didn't use it on the BELL HOUSING bolts either.

                      I only used it on bolt sizes its designed to be used on that were failry lrg flywheel to crank bolts on a BBC(big block chevy) along with bolts that held PP/pressure plate to flywheel using high quality ARP fasteners too that i had ref to stating issues i had with it being very hard to break loose anything i had used red loctite on having it hold so tight it broke heads off a couple bolts and ripped few threads out too.

                      I would not be surprised if thats parts of the reason the mfg rec's only using it on app you think you will not have any reason to remove any time soon which i totally agree with like for example maybe a bolt holding something that if had come loose would cause a catastrophic event right off the bat.

                      I use blue loctite on all fasteners on my motorcycles and haven't had any issue with anything coming loose,but i always properly clean threads etc with brakleen prior to applying enough blue loctite to properly hold the fastener & using proper trq value where applicable too.

                      Happy Motoring.

                      Scott

                      Comment


                      • #19
                        Heres what the mfg has to say about removing red loctite.

                        It can be difficult removing LOCTITE® red threadlocker, and it’s a common vehicle maintenance question. While the strength of our red threadlockers is formidable, and meant to be a permanent assembly method, don’t believe the myths: red threadlocker can be disassembled with the right technique.

                        When disassembling red threadlocker, the process is a little different than for other threadlockers. The key is to apply localized heat greater than 550° F. Then, once the threaded assembly is hot, the bolt can be unthreaded.

                        Without applying greater than 550° F heat to the assembly, it’s likely that a bolt would break before coming loose.
                        ================================================== ================================================== =====

                        BTW,also keep in mind when applying more then 550deg f heat the mfg rec to break red loctite loose could possibly damage shaft seal and start leaking later on too.

                        scott


                        Comment


                        • #20
                          I never said you used it on a clutch housing I said I wouldn't. I used a clutch housing as an example of something not to use it on. Flywheel bolts are also something I wouldn't use it on. The use isn't just due to the size of fastener you are using it is the application of the fastener. You say that use would be something that could cause catastrophic event, well a pulley nut coming loose could do exactly that. As I said it takes very little heat to remove something with red loctite used. In fact you could have applied a little heat to the heads of your flywheel bolts and it would have been enough to travel to the threads to loosen instead of twisting the bolt until it broke. Using an impact or impact driver will work in most cases even without heat.

                          Keep in mind the whole thing you posted about 550º heat don't mean the fastener has to be heated to 550º it means heat with a torch not a match or cig lighter.

                          Also keep in mind that most all of us want the pulley to be permanent. As far as seal replacement the only time I've heard of a seal leak it was due to the pulley nut coming loose and destroying the seal. To all members use what you want to it's your bike just don't be misled by 1 person that used Red loctite for something on a car that it wasn't intended for then had a bad experience.
                          If you want to experiment with different pulley's you may want to use blue until you are sure what pulley you want to keep. but check the nut every year to insure it is not coming loose. When you know what pulley you want to use pull the nut back off and use red along with the proper locking washer for your bike and no more worries.

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