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  • #41
    In the simplest terms, laws only work on people who follow them. Our society as a whole is focused on making it LOOK like they are fixing the problem. Our airport security is a joke because the majority of travelers do not want to be inconvenienced with actual security. DUI's are common because society does not actually punish offenders. We are more concerned with "prison overcrowding" than getting offenders off the street. If you want to see a perfect example of foolish expectations, look at Great Briton. The police wear ballistic armor even though it has been against the law to OWN a gun for more than 20 years. Ask them why, and they tell you that the law didn't stop the criminals from getting guns. As long as society is not willing to actually enforce existing laws, passing more is a waste of effort. As long as we make excuses for crime and criminals, we are creating our own problems.
    Gerry

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    • roadiemort
      roadiemort commented
      Editing a comment
      The system is designed to make money for those in it nothing more.

  • #42

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    • #43
      The media is more concerned with viewership or subscription rates rather than reporting the truth. Most of them are so mindless that they'll vilify anything their editor or producer tells them to without giving a thought to the truth of what they're presenting or the consequences of their 'reporting'. In regards to this latest shooting in Florida, it appears that the social media which has in most likelihood caused the bullying and torment that has driven many kids to suicide, has been pushing the 'students against gun violence' mantra to the naïve fools that are organizing the student walkouts spreading throughout the country. As evidence of this, look at the preponderance of posters with virtually the same wording in all demonstrations.
      As much as today's youth are addicted to 'social media' , disregarding the element of truth, where 'likes' are more valued, where are the reports of students making threats or acting antisocially? Why hasn't the lack of response by 'authorities',( including the response of the FBI that was 'monitoring' the 9/11 hijackers' so well) been more seriously scrutinized? NO- lets blame the NRA for all the mass shootings! (somehow all the blacks and latinos being shot and killed in places like Detroit, Chicago, San Francisco, New York don't elicit any meaningful reporting or concern by the media or these gun-grabbing groups, which, if closely scrutinized, will be shown to be financed through shadow companies by the mega-millionaires like George Soros and Michael " I'll decide if you should pay more for sodas' Bloomberg, whose aim is to be the top dogs over ALL the world ... think One World Government... with them in charge). I just wish that people will wake up and see what is really going on, instead of acting like the proverbial lemmings. I won't hold my breath waiting for it to happen!

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      • #44
        Not to hijack this thread. But I found this article interesting. He talks about the value of print (or more to let your "news" cool a bit before you ingest it). He goes on about how "social media" and news media outlets are doing more opinion than fact.

        Our tech columnist tried to skip digital news for a while. His old-school experiment led to three main conclusions.

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        • #45
           

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          • #46
            Originally posted by Jaybo View Post
            We've had 2 decades since the first major school shooting, and they could have started with controlled access in and out. and that would have went a long way to prevent them in the following years. That is still barely happening.
            They have controlled access at our school system, works good at keeping the parents out in the morning and afternoon pickup time. Drive by during the day and doors wide open.

            Comment


            • Assocracer
              Assocracer commented
              Editing a comment
              At my daughter's school, you can't get in or out during the school day without someone buzzing the door open, no matter who you are. After school is over, that's a different story. However, the high school isn't nearly as locked down.

          • #47
            Originally posted by boomerA View Post
            What the left-leaning media is most definitely choosing to ignore, (or their so-called investigative reporters were too lazy to research) is that there is a plethora of gun laws already on the books that are not being enforced, especially by the Democratic administrations.
            Also, authorities are franticly trying to hide the numerous warning signs just about all the mass shooters have exhibited and their failure to act on the warnings.
            Another thing that is deliberately being swept under the rug is the fact that in almost all the shootings, they were conducted in official "Gun-Free Zones" ( or more properly, 'target rich environment') . None of these shooters expected to be shot at, themselves (and don't you think it a bit suspicious that so many of them died from 'self-inflicted' gunshots?).
            Our media is ultimately owned by a few mega-millionaires whose prime goal is to gain control of the economies, and therefore governments of the so-called free world, so don't expect to hear/see the truth about the second amendment and constitutional rights.
            --

            The above quote hits it on the head of the problem:
            1. Don't enforce laws already made.
            2. Don't take warning signs seriously.
            3. Gun Free Zones are just welcome mats for crazies.
            4. The push on removing guns is really just a power grab.

            Understanding that you can not stop crazies with any laws, they only work for law abiders. Then for schools and similar places:
            1. Remove the "Gun Free Zone" signs
            2. Lock the Doors
            3. Let Good Guys be Armed
            4. Problem solved as to guns.

            --

            Comment


            • Assocracer
              Assocracer commented
              Editing a comment
              Though I don't fully agree with having armed people in school. I can't tell you how many of my daughter's friends have said they would be more scared to go to school knowing that there are guns there. And if they are afraid, then they aren't learning to their full potential. What needs to be done is VERY limited access to schools during the day. Regulate who's getting in and out of the building. The only issue with that is 99% of the time, it's another student. But usually said student did not get into the school with the masses.

          • #48
            GUN CONTROL - THE ART OF HITTING WHAT YOU AIM AT.
            Gerry

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            • #49
               

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              • #50
                 

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                • #51
                  Originally posted by Smokescreens View Post

                  I think it would take someone to figure out how to "un-invent" the gun as the The Australian buy back did nothing to stop gun violence. Just like the assault weapon ban in 1994
                  http://theconversation.com/factcheck...ustralia-85836


                  But most mass shootings are done with pistols and shot guns either way
                  I suggest you actually read the article rather than just the headline. The article states quite clearly that there has been a reduction in gun deaths in Australia after the two gun buy back schemes..... and there have been no mass shootings since 1996 when the first buy back scheme was instigated.

                  Most mass shootings in the USA are NOT committed with handguns or shot guns. Again, I suggest you check your facts.

                  Its always amusing to see how the American gun debate is muddied by personal liberties and the second amendment. In my view, the debate should stick to the issue which is mass shootings, not individual gun related deaths/homicides.


                  There seems to be a predilection in blaming mental health as the root cause of the problem. . Of course it is. No sane person goes armed to kill as many people as possible but identifying these people is nigh on impossible. People "snap" mentally, and if they have access to rapid fire arms, their efforts are enhanced.

                  I've never understood why people want to own a rapid fire weapon. It can't be for hunting If you cannot bring down your quarry and one (or worse two) shots, you either need training or you should give up your fire arm. I suspect its like a lot of HD owners, who see it as a status symbol, scratching their balls, puffing their chest while relaying to all and sundry that they have a (XXXX) insert powerful rapid fire gun. Its just a toy to them with no practical value.

                  The Australian experience is that these guns are banned. However you may own many other types of weapons from handguns to rifles. (Yes, I am a gun owner). These weapons must be kept under lock and double key, not sitting in someone's draw where any other resident (even children) can access them. If America wants to reduce these mass shooting, ditch the rapid fire weapons, you can still have your hand guns which are much more effective for close personnel protection anyway (unless some of you want to wander around wearing heavy long trench coats to conceal your AR).


                  And here's another article refuting NRA's assess ment of Australian gun laws

                  Study shows NRA is wrong about Aussie gun laws
                  Tens of thousands of us must have told incredulous Americans when we travel over there or they travel here about what happened after John Howard changed our gun laws in 1996. Just 12 days after the Port Arthur massacre where 35 died and another 23 were seriously injured, the Australasian Police Ministers' Council adopted the National Firearms Agreement.
                  The centrepiece of the law reforms was the outlawing from civilian ownership the rapid-firing, mass-killing machines that armed forces carry.
                  In 2016 with two colleagues, I published a report in the Journal of the American Medical Association where we told the world that 20 years on, Australia had not had a single mass shooting. In the 18 years up to and including the Port Arthur massacre, we’d had 13 where five or more (not including the perpetrator) were killed.
                  The New Yorker named our evaluation of the impact of the new laws as one of five most notable medical research reports of 2016.
                  Today, 22 years on, Australia still has not experienced a mass shooting. Nada. Zilch.
                  We have all heard this information. Most agree that our gun law reforms stopped firearm massacres in their tracks. But, like the Black Knight in Monty Python and the Holy Grail who, having lost all arms and legs, still wants to fight on, the gun lobby does not.
                  In February, in the wake of the Parkland, Florida, school killings, The New York Times put the US National Rifle Association's response to the Australian lesson this way: “Such episodes are rare enough that it would be statistically incorrect for gun control supporters to draw a cause-and-effect conclusion.”
                  Griffiths University researcher, gun violence expert and former chair of the International Coalition for Women in Shooting and Hunting, Samara McPhedran has said: “It is possible that the concentration of incidents in one decade was a statistical anomaly. Mass shootings are rare events, and the long gap between incidents post-1996 may simply reflect a return to a more 'normal' state of affairs, similar to the years before 1987.”
                  In research published today in the journal Annals of Internal Medicine, we have tested this “rare events are still rare” dismissal. Using the eye-watering mathematics used to test the likelihood of rare events being truly rare (insurance companies have long used these techniques to assess risk and set premiums), we tested the “null” hypothesis that the rate of mass shootings in Australia in the 18 years before the 1996 law reforms remained unchanged in the 22 years afterwards. We set out to see if the obvious, was indeed obvious.
                  We concluded the probability of this 22 year absence occurring following the pattern in the preceding 18 years was about 1 in 200,000. That’s odds slightly worse than a ticket holder winning first prize in the NSW $5 jackpot lottery: 1 in 180,000. Or as I once heard a famous statistics professor telling a gormless student “about the same odds of winning if you didn’t
                  Over the 18 years prior to 1996, mass shootings occurred here at a rate of about three every four years. Had they continued at this rate then, under our rare events model, the expected number of mass shooting incidents since 1996 would by March 2018 have been 16.3. John Howard’s historic leadership in implementing our gun law reforms therefore seems likely to have averted some 16 mass shootings in this country.
                  The US second amendment is all about the right to bear arms. Yet like Australians, Americans have long suffered the heinous oppression of being unable to walk into a shop and buy dynamite, hand grenades, flame throwers and ground-to-air missiles.
                  In Australia, we’ve never been able to buy fully automatic machine guns, and since 1996 we haven’t been able to buy semi-automatic rifles and shotguns. As our research shows, many lives have been saved.
                  These types of guns are the ones that mass killers in the USA select today with depressing regularity and which will go on being used until enough Americans, sickened by the carnage, say stop.
                  Simon Chapman is an emeritus professor at the Sydney School of Public Health, University of Sydney.


                  Comment


                  • Assocracer
                    Assocracer commented
                    Editing a comment
                    That's actually not true about what guns are used in mass shootings. Most of the time its some type of semi-automatic handgun, like a Glock or a Beretta with at least 15 round magazines. And the shooter usually has a bunch of loaded magazines with them. There have only been one or two where the shooter actually used a gun like an AR-15.

                • #52
                  https://www.factcheck.org/2017/10/gu...ralia-updated/

                  So what do you consider "rapid fire"? These were semi automatic rifles. One pull one round. How do we ban people who can wiggle their fingers to fast? Hell i have seen some competition shoooters work a lever gun faster than i can pull a trigger. And put 12 rounds through a revolver in less than 4 seconds (6 shots reload and 6 more in less than 4 seconds)
                  why the hell does nobody want to focus on the issue of doing something to get a damn gun out of the hands of someone who shouldnt have it and all they can come up with is take them all away.
                  my Wallet is Getting dangerously close to spontaneous combustion

                  Comment


                  • Assocracer
                    Assocracer commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Agreed.

                • #53
                  23 million people live on the really big island called Australia. They’re pretty spread out. We have about 14 times that many. Most of ours(85%) living cheek by jowl.

                  Hecterville, 2011. Hunt, 2014. Wedderburn, 2014. Why do all the people who tout the “nothing since 1996 choose to brush these out of the picture? If you dig a bit, you find out arson becomes a favorite option. Knives, also.
                  How many mass shootings were fewer the 5. The magic number where people start calling them a mass shooting in Australia if I’m not mistaken. If there are a lot fewer people in Australia, would 2 people be a mass shooting?

                  Statistics. During this period, there were 29 mass shootings in the US. Take 3 x 14, and you get 42. We’re still below a statistical norm compared to Australia, aren’t we.

                  Do a bit of digging, and you find out mass murders continued in Australia. The perps just go to different methods. Knives. Fire. Hammers. Mass killings will continue. You will have more mass killings, as the population density increases, you will have more.
                  Shootings still continued after 1996. It didn’t stop criminal behavior.....which is what murdering people is.

                  Trying to make apples to apples comparisons between the US and any other country is always flawed.

                  How many mass shootings have happened in France?

                  There were so many warning signs regarding Nick Cruz, it’s not even funny. Yet, people are blaming the NRA, and guns instead of the authorities who, if they’d of simply done their job could have prevented it,.....Maybe.
                  Maybe this idiot Cruz would have turned to making bombs, like the twisted individual in Austin, or the Unibomber.
                  The kid who murdered the children at Sandyhook clearly had issues, and murdered his mother......the same woman who went out of her way to pretend the boy was fine, and taught him to use a gun.....to get the weapons he used to murder the school children. The NRA’s fault, or the mothers?
                  I use these two, because they are clear examples of checks and prevention means and methods by authorities and or family members that failed.
                  The clown in Austin, and the Vegas shooter were completely off the radar, before they began killing people.

                  The left in this country has always sought to get rid of the 2nd Amendment by pretending it isn’t what it is.
                  It is, a check on our own government. It has nothing to do with hunting. It has nothing to do with muskets. It was written with a particular intent.
                  It is the ultimate protector, of our freedoms, and restrictions our Constitution protects on our behalf and limits on the part of Government, respectively.
                  That’s why it’s number 2 on the Bill of Rights. In between free speech, and being forced to quarter troops in your on home without your permission. These are protections against the encroachment by our own government, against our person and property.
                  The IRS mess with Lois Lerner’s attack on free speech(and her string pullers, who slipped out of sight). The FISA abuses by the previous administration, and the attempts currently to pretend Trump cheated to win an election, while ignoring their own meddling to rig that same election. The attempts by the Feds to interfere in local and state government in Ferguson, Mo. The willingness of the previous administration to ignore its responsibilities where border control was concerned, even to the point of supporting open border agendas.
                  All of the above, are signs the second amendment is needed now, more then ever.

                  The creeping black shadow Whitaker Chambers warned about is slowly taking over the country with the quiet lullaby melody of how government can protect you, you just have to give up your responsibilities and embrace the idea, government control is the answer to any and all problems. Both real and or perceived.

                  ....yet, they didn’t want to stop Nick Cruz. Nidal Hassan was workplace violence. The weapon that killed Kate Steinle was stolen from where? The individual who pulled the trigger was here illegally and allowed to stay by whom?

                  I think I’ll keep my gun. The idea first responders will leave no stone unturned to find the perps and bring them to trial isn’t that comforting if you’re the victim, and you’re dead. The idea the government is acting for the “collective” good, doesn’t make me feel better either. Heck, the government even embraces the word these days. Collective is seen as better then the individual.

                  There are Tigers here. I’ll keep my gun.


                  .......now where did I put my trash can lid? I’m probably gonna need it.

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                  • #54
                    The erosion of rights has been going on a long time under every ones nose, hope there is still time.

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                    • #55
                       

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                      • #56
                        The United States is unique in that it HAS NEVER BEEN a monarchy, i.e. never been 'ruled' by someone due purely to their genealogy. Hearing foreigners pontificate about how superior they are because they don't have the 'gun violence' that we do (as if the weapons themselves do all the killing - don't pay any attention to the fact that they are tools). WE have never been successfully invaded either. During World War II, the British government ( which then include Canada, New Zealand, Australia,and India) came pleading to the U.S. for donation of privately owned guns to protect their homeland from the Nazis, because of poor generalship causing the Dunkirk evacuation. American CITIZENS, NOT subjects, responded, sending thousands of personal firearms to the cause. At the end of the war, did they return them? NO! They destroyed them!
                        Years ago, when I was still competing in the Civilian Marksmanship Program National Matches at Camp Perry, Ohio, an Australian shooting club came to the meet to shoot and experience the camaraderie . Local shooting clubs loaned them semiautomatic rifles to shoot (AR15s). For the John C. Garand competition, the CMP, as always, loaned M1 Garands to any that wanted to shoot the match and did not own one of these rifles (they are returned to the CMP after the match, and if eligible, the shooters may buy the rifle they shot). During the various competitions, each firing point has several shooters assigned to it to fire in turns, or relays. As to be expected, with shooters from all over, a kinship developed, with multiple relays at the firing line and in the target pits. An Australian on my firing point was looking forward to this shoot and afterwards came to the shooters picnic area where we were enjoying hotdogs, sweet corn and liquid beverages. He was so pumped from his experience, he was like a kid who'd just come from a thrilling ride. This is what former subject of the British Empire must live (?) with.
                        IIRC, a few years back, when there was a spate of stabbings in the U.K. , certain MPs were trying to register sharp knives and ban the public from owning anything sharper than a butter knife!

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Statistics are fun.

                          In the homes I’ve lived in since 1974ish, there has been at least one gun for every member of the family. To date, there have been zero mass shootings at my home.

                          Allowing for population variations and their influence on statistics, I even lowered the standard by which a “mass shooting” would count. I figured in a household of 4, 25% of the population is a single person. So, one killing would be considered a mass shooting. Even at this razor thin threshold of accounting, there have still been exactly 0 mass shootings.
                          I have a lot of sharp knives, also. Except for the occasional self inflicted wound caused by careless behavior, there have been 0 mass murders using a knife or other sharp object in my home. Machete. Table saw. Even chisels, included.
                          To date nobody has burned down a house I lived in either. Using the above criteria, I’ll go out a limb and say there have been 0 mass murders by arson at my home.

                          So! I think as a country, we should emulate my example, instead of a virtual slaughter house like Australia.
                          Based on my conclusion, there needs to be “a whole lota gun buy’n goin on out dar”

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                          • #58

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                            • #59
                              What’s the logic in thinking the banning of anything prevents those determined to do harm from getting their hands on said item. Suicide is illegal isn’t it, yet it is the 10th leading cause of death after 9 diseases. This video below is a hoot! Did these folks not study history? Constitution is out dated? Dumb shits!

                              http://www.breitbart.com/big-governm...ssault-weapon/

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Governments around the world want to have guns controlled. Keeps those lying
                                SOB Politicians safer.
                                Americans have to stop the insanity of gun control. The mass shooting stunts are what they are and gun control will not stop much of it. Freedom is important and don't give any more freedoms away.
                                In Canada gun control does not stop the gang bangers from shooting each other and innocent bystanders. It's not like the gang member is going to register his/her stolen gun before hitting the nearest 7-11 for cash or shooting his wife or her husband. Just MO.

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