Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Voting is Essential

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Voting is Essential

    No matter what your politics are, if you believe in democracy, you believe in the importance of voting. As someone who lives in a state where mail-in voting is universal, let me tell you how it works here. All registered voters receive a ballot in the mail. The ballot comes with two return envelopes; a security envelope to keep your vote secret, and a return envelope that must be signed. You place your completed ballot inside the security envelope, seal it, place it inside the return envelope, and sign it. When your ballot is received, your signature on the return envelope is validated by matching it to your original voter registration paperwork, and you are credited as voting in the election to avoid multiple votes under the same name. The security envelope is then separated from the return envelope associated with your signature to ensure your vote is secret. If your signature does not match, your ballot is set aside and you are contacted and given the chance to prove in-person that your signature is valid. I had to do this once because my signature changed quite a bit over time (I'm a lot more lazy with it now than when I was 18 )

    Now, I'm not saying that switching largely to vote by mail in states that have not done so in the past is not a daunting task that will require planning and funding to implement. But to assert that vote by mail is somehow more susceptible to fraud than in person voting without identifying any realistic vulnerabilities is a direct threat to democracy itself. This imagery that there will be 60 million ballots floating around the country like confetti in a parade is not realistic. If done properly, each ballot would be mailed directly to a registered voter. Are post office workers more likely to steal ballots than the poll workers that would otherwise be handling them? I don't see how that could be the case. Who are these "people" who are going to grab batches of ballots, and how could they possibly use them nefariously if the proper precautions are taken? This rhetoric defies common sense, and cannot withstand even a basic level of critical analysis. How is it that an absentee ballot is "fine" but a ballot sent to a registered voter who normally votes in person is not? If our President truly believed in democratic values, and was really worried about fraud, he would be identifying specific potential problem areas that could be associated with vote by mail, coming up with viable solutions, and providing the funding to implement them. Instead, he is using vague, preemptive, baseless claims of imaginary fraud that hasn't even happened yet to block the funding needed to implement a fair and free election in a time where we may be asked to choose between our health and our right to vote. The lack of planning and funding for a fair and free election is what would be a disaster in November, not fraud.

    When we have a president who is preemptively undermining the very foundations of democracy itself by crying foul on an election that hasn't even happened yet, our way life is under serious threat. The right to vote is essential in protecting our other basic freedoms. If vote by mail is undermined, and millions of us are forced to choose between our health and our vote, we will no longer be living in a democratic country. When we are arguing over the validity of votes that haven't even happened yet, we are undermining our own voices by allowing the backbone of our democratic values to be weakened by the osteoporosis of baseless doubt. This election is no longer about policy. It has become a fight for democracy itself. While I know I am on a political island here, I am concerned to see how little political discussion there has been here regarding this issue. Not trying to start any policy arguments here. We all have our opinions that are based upon core values and beliefs that will likely never change (and certainly won't be swayed by online arguments ) But, voting is something I would have thought we could all agree on, and I'm concerned to see that no one here is talking about this. Even if you love Trump, I don't know how you can feel good about the way he is seeding doubt over the basic functioning of our democratic system. This is some scary !
    President Trump on Thursday blamed Democrats’ push for funding for universal mail-in ballots as one of the reasons for a delay in negotiations on Capitol Hill over a fourth coronavirus stimulus package, claiming the practice in the 2020 election would cause "the greatest fraud in history."

  • #2
    Voting is done in person at registered voting areas. We brave the pandemic to shop, eat, socialize.. So saying we are putting people life at risk by not allowing mass mail in ballots seem silly. Voter Freud is a real thing and we have So many illegal immigrants here we do have to be concerned about that "group" being manipulated into voting (illegally) for a certain side.
    LET'S RIDE

    Comment


    • davej
      davej commented
      Editing a comment
      I also would like to know if the USPS in inendated with ballots is my electric bill gonna be paid on time along with my mortgage payment. I don't online pay I pay by check. How would that work out?

    • Duke
      Duke commented
      Editing a comment
      Agree with you LugNut. People talk the talk when it's for them. If there needing toilet paper, I guess they'll go to the store. But to vote, they would be putting their lives a risk? They're full of sh_t.

    • GreenMachine
      GreenMachine commented
      Editing a comment
      Dave, I’m not sure how having to order an absentee ballot is a protecting the integrity of the vote if every ballot turned in is checked against the voter roles? It doesn’t matter who gets a ballot, it matters who turns it in.

      Where is this 15% fraud rate coming from? That would be very concerning. Got any links?

      As for your daughter’s situation, I don’t see how sending out voter registration forms is cause for fraud concerns. Anyone could get ahold of registration forms. They are publicly accessible documents. You must provide proof of identity/citizenship when submitting those forms. And mail in ballots require a signature that matches the registration form that was submitted with proof of identity.

      I agree that voting is no different than going to the store. I know many people with health concerns that are choosing to avoid the store because they would be at risk of complications if they contracted the virus. Should they have to make a decision to take a risk they are not normally comfortable taking in order to vote?

      I also agree that USPS should be well prepared for a large influx of ballots, whether they be from vote by mail or absentee. That would require planning and funding that is currently being help up.

  • #3
    I also live in a state that does mail in voting and has for awhile. In large part it does work but there is susceptibility for fraud in a mail in vote. I know personally people who have passed away not just the year of the election but several years prior that received ballots and I have friends who have had family members have the same thing happen. The bigger issue isn’t that it’s not possible to do vote by mail but that trying to get it done by this election is the problem. It takes a lot of time and preparation to get something like this to work with as little issues as possible. Absentee ballots are a completely different animal and you can not compare the two, as you must jump through some hurdles to do adsentee voting. We already have issues with places that did mail in ballots for the first time ever And are after several months still don’t have results. While I agree whole heartedly that voting is a cornerstone of our democracy, you can not tell me that I can go out and protest or riot but for some reason the registered voting areas are off limits cause it may cause harm to the public.( in the immortal words of Biden “Come On Man”) If the country wants to do mail in voting fine I think it’s possible it is just NOT POSSIBLE for this election cycle that is the issue.

    Comment


    • GreenMachine
      GreenMachine commented
      Editing a comment
      Obviously, no one is saying voting in person should be off limits. It should be an option in states that have been offering it.

      Do you know anyone who has sent in a dead person’s ballot? While this issue should be addressed, It doesn’t seem likely to me that this is a significant issue in terms of sheer numbers, or something that could be easily leveraged by a bad actor.

      I agree there are logistical challenges to switching to vote by mail on short notice, but I think we need to at least try to rise to the challenge in order to preserve the right to vote for those of us who don’t feel safe voting in person. That said, the potential choas created by pivoting last minute will likely play a factor in casting doubt on the results in November. That does scare me!

      How do you see the process to get an absentee ballot as any sort of check against fraud as opposed to universal vote by mail? I am especially interested in what you think since you have experience with universal vote by mail.

      The biggest issue I am concerned about is the doubt that is being sown into our consciousness. Both through allegations of not yet happened fraud and the likely chaos created by hastily implemented vote by mail systems. I am very afraid that no matter what the results of the election are, the losing side will not accept the results. That right there is a serious threat to our country, and it is the reality we are all riding towards at a cool 100 mph.

  • #4
    Defending my dissertation on local elections tomorrow actually. At 1130 MST I become Dr. Knoll. Boo yah.

    on Sunday I head out from Denver to Yellowstone.

    https://www.thisamericanlife.org/630...know/act-one-0

    This is a This American Life segment about voter fraud from a few years ago. Interviews a dude who studies voter fraud. It’s virtually non-existent. Many of the thousands of ballots that were identified as being fraudulent were actually the product of a data error. The reason for such low rates of fraudulent voting is because the penalty is actually pretty severe. It’s a felony that results at minimum in permanent disenfranchisement, at least one year in prison, and a fine.

    A more recent study by an MIT researcher puts it at 0.00006% nationally.

    https://shass.mit.edu/news/news-2020...d-fair-stewart

    At the national level, The United States has the lowest levels of voting among developed countries. This is largely attributed to the institutional features of our electoral system. For example, we vote on a Tuesday. Every other developed country votes on the weekend. Another example would be our complex registration system that varies by state. No other developed country has as restrictive of a registration system. Most are automatic.

    Internationally, higher turnout is associated with victories for left leaning parties and economic policy that is more distributive than American policy (i.e. universal healthcare, govt subsidized child care; more generous parental leave; universal access to higher ed, etc.).

    Scholars largely agree that the features of the American electoral system that depress turnout relative to other developed countries are purposeful. They are meant to reduce turnout. The idea that participation should be restricted embraces a Madisonian interpretation of democracy in which only the most educated participate. Madison very much feared the participation of the common man in American politics. This stands in contrast to Jeffersonian interpretations of democracy that emphasize the importance of participation across the economic (And educational) spectrum. Keep in mind on the other hand that these founding fathers did agree on the exclusion of minorities and women from the electorate (at this time mostly Black folks).

    There is substantial evidence that the specter of voter fraud is just that, a ghost. It is one of many disinformation strategies which have grown exponentially with expansion of the internet and social media. Real people, people I know, spend most of their waking hours studying these very things.

    Our country has a long history of voter suppression (poll taxes; literacy tests; disenfranchisement of minorities and women; voter ID laws) particularly pre Voting Rights Act of 1965. According to NYU Law School we have seen increased attempts at voter supression since the pre clearance clause of the Act was struck down by the Supreme Court several years ago.

    In 1965 we saw the second most recent transformation of the American parties. LBJ when he signed the voting rights act was quoted as saying “We just lost The South for a generation.” He wasn’t wrong. There was a mass exodus of Southern Democrats to the Republican Party.

    I’d argue the most recent party transformation is today. Particularly the Republican Party. The democrats have been playing identity politics pretty much since the voting rights act. The GOP, on the other hand, I’d argue has very much transformed into the party of Trump. Look at Romney. He was 8 years ago on the head of the ticket. Today he is a conservative outcast. See also Senators Jeff Flake or Jeff Sessions.

    Trump isn’t fixated on vote by mail because he’s worried about corruption. He doesn’t want vote by mail because it would very likely hurt his already uphill battle to retain office. More people would vote. That would hurt his chances tremendously.

    The difference between journalism and scholarly research is data. Scholars need to be able to substantiate the things we say. We cannot hide behind anonymous sources. Happy to share resources beyond what I’ve shared with anyone whose interested. Just let me know.

    Comment


    • Duke
      Duke commented
      Editing a comment
      I beleave, we the people are all worried about the political corruption that is going on! It's time for accountability to all, be it good, or bad.
      People that haven't put anything into the system, or country, should not be able to vote, period.

    • SuperG
      SuperG commented
      Editing a comment
      Yep. Most of the so-called "voter fraud" polices put forth are presented in bad faith and are designed to suppress voter turnout. I don't know if voter suppression is considered "American" (wave the flag and all that) but it sure is undemocratic.

    • RTT
      RTT commented
      Editing a comment
      I hope your dissertation went well today!

  • #5
    Seems a little dramatic to say choosing between health and voting. I voted August 4th in person and it was no big deal. But I see the agenda you are trying to push so that's cool use your scare tactics.

    Comment


    • GreenMachine
      GreenMachine commented
      Editing a comment
      Dave, if you read my post you would know I vote by mail already. I would not be afraid to vote in person if I lived in a state that did so. I do have loved ones who are high risk who will be voting in person because they are afraid that the absentee ballots that they usually submit will be mishandled or held up by the post office a result of the chaos that will ensue if they are not prepared with a plan and the proper funding. I find that wrong, and I am concerned for their well being.

      Your comment about cheating perfectly illustrates the thing that I am truly afraid of. Doubt about the results and refusal to accept them. That is what will rip our country apart. There has to be a mechanism by which cheating is accomplished. What do you envision happening that would go undetected in what is likely to be one of the most scrupulously examined election results in history?

    • Duke
      Duke commented
      Editing a comment
      Right on Dave! They're so busy trying to take down the president, nothing has gotten done the last few years. I have lost trust for democratics and most of our government.

    • SuperG
      SuperG commented
      Editing a comment
      Heh - all this talk about the Dems and cheating. That's projecting oneself onto another. Trump trying to make up dirt out of whole cloth on Biden by bullying a foreign country - and all we hear is crickets on the right.

  • #6
    I agree Dave. If people aren't afraid to go out rioting and looting every night, why be afraid to vote in person with ID.

    Comment


    • GreenMachine
      GreenMachine commented
      Editing a comment
      Lol. The people out in the streets are not the same people who do not feel comfortable voting in person.

    • J89k
      J89k commented
      Editing a comment
      The populations that vote are different from the populations that protest. Older people tend to vote. Younger people tend to protest. It’s rare to see grandma protesting. It’s not so rare to see grandma voting.

  • #7
    Most states haven't had a registration purge in years. That means dead people are still registered to vote and anyone even illegal immigrants can vote with their registration. why do you think ID isn't required to vote in most states. I'm not a devious person so my mind don't work in the corrupt ways that Nancy and Chucks mind do. I can't say how many ways there are to cheat but I'll bet they have a whole list of things already in place to try. The Dems are so hungry for power there is nothing they won't do to win. Just look at the Russia hoax that they spent millions on knowing that it was a hoax. They played it out at the taxpayers expense knowing it was bullshit and would never do anything but create a commotion to keep the spotlight off their corruption. I'm a former Union leader and former Democrat. Hell I was at a dinner with Tipper Gore at 1 time during my Union time. Now the dems have embarrassed my so bad I hate to admit what I just did. They are some of the biggest backstabbing pieces of shit I have ever seen. I'm not talking about the democrat that lives down the road, I'm talking about the party itself with the Nancy's,Maxines and Chucks. Oh and Joe and Kamala the 2 faced lieing bitch.

    Comment


    • Duke
      Duke commented
      Editing a comment
      Hell Dave, don't sugar coat it, tell him like it is! Lol.
      I can't understand why no ID required to vote for persons running our country, but need a ID for Social Security, banking, lodging, cashing checks, driving, etc. etc..

    • J89k
      J89k commented
      Editing a comment
      Tell me again why Trumps campaign manager is in prison? What about Michael Flynn? What about Michael Cohen? Popadopolous? Gates? Why did Roger stone need a pardon?

      If there’s no “there” there, how come his people keep ending up in prison? A scam? A hoax?

      Where there’s smoke there’s fire.

      Could I be wrong? Sure. Looks fishy as hell though.

      In listening to an interview with the conservative lead economist of Thiel Capital (Run by conservative mega donor Peter Thiel), Eric Weinstein, he talks about the phrase “having steady hands.” He said it was a phrase he learned in Washington and that it kind of surprised him. It’s the idea that someone will have steady hands in tough situation and do what they need to do to protect those above them... they are willing to be a fall guy when problems arise. The men listed above sound like they have steady hands.

      Illegal immigrants barely go to the hospital because they fear deportation. Many don’t even speak English. And you think they are lining up to vote? Hispanics who do have the legitimate right to vote have some of the lowest rates of voting of any racial group.

      Painting a picture of Hispanics voting en mass is pretty far off base for a number of reasons. Particularly if you’re talking about the ones that are illegal.

      It speaks more to your fear of minorities than to the reality of elections.

      I’d press for a source that isn’t breitbart news.

  • #8
    I can see you have very strong feelings about the Democratic leadership. Even if you are 100% correct and the Democratic leadership is rotten to the core and planning some kind of wide spread election fraud scheme, I just don’t see how it would be logistically possible to implement something like that on a scale that could swing an election and also avoid detection. As a Democrat I sure as hell would not put up with something like that if it came to light, and I don’t think you will find many Americans who would.

    Voter roles are purged of the deceased on a regular basis in accordance with federal and state laws.
    https://www.ncsl.org/research/electi...spx#fed%20reqs
    You are right though that it can take years to remove a dead person from the roles, as a state that suspects a citizen to be dead without confirmation must wait 2 federal election cycles before they can be purged.
    https://www.npr.org/2019/12/20/79031...stration-rolls
    For arguments sake, let’s say a large portion (or even all) of those dead people’s ballots are being submitted illegally by the random people who have received them. Chances are that they would be submitted for opposing candidates in the same proportion that the general public votes in, and would not swing an election in either direction. That is unless you think one side or the other is more likely to do something terrible like that. I don’t know anyone of any persuasion that I think would do that. Do you? I don’t think the American public in general on either side of the aisle is inclined to do that. It is inherently un-American. Let’s say every deceased person’s ballot that was inadvertently sent to an illegal immigrant was forged and returned (not something someone trying to hide from the law would be likely to do, but I digress). How many illegitimate votes do you think that would actually produce? Let’s take a look at the numbers and estimate. According to the CDC roughly 2.8 million Americans die every year. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/deaths.htm
    I’m not sure how many deaths go unreported and remain on roles for eight years, but I would guess 10% would be a very high estimate, but feel free to plug in your own estimate or even better research the actual number. 2.8 million x 8 x .1 equals 2.4 million dead Americans on the roles nation wide. If every single one of these voters were enrolled in vote by mail (obviously that would not be any where near the case) and their ballots were sent out to random addresses they would go to an illegal immigrant 3.6% of the time(their percentage of our population). https://www.brookings.edu/policy2020...-who-are-they/
    If every single one of those illegal immigrants fraudulently returned the ballot they were sent, that would mean 86,400 fraudulent votes distributed throughout the country. If you assume every dead American remains on the voter roles for 8 years and every ballot received by an illegal immigrant is returned fraudulently, that bumps the national total to 864,000 fraudulent votes. And you have to imagine that when any forged signature is checked, it would be thrown out anyway. They do check them as I attested to above. Even if none were thrown out, is that enough to sway the results of an election? The votes/dead voters would also need to be in the right states to do so. These numbers assume widespread fraud in a population of people who want nothing more than to remain under the radar, that every voter left on the roles is enrolled in vote by mail, and that there is gross negligence by every single state. I think it’s pretty obvious that this kind of fraud having an impact on an election is highly unlikely if not statistically impossible, even if there is widespread foul play compounded by across the board negligence. Even if someone made a plan to obtain every ballot of every dead American enrolled in vote by mail, and left on the voter roles, this kind of fraud would be very difficult to implement and highly unlikely to make any sort of meaningful impact on results. I don’t know how corrupt Chuck and Nancy truly are, but this sort of scheme would get them nowhere.

    Comment


    • #9
      I agree that voting is essential and that it is the most important thing citizens and elected politicians can do to shape the future. That’s why I ignore the personalities of my local and national elected officials and rather look at their past voting records. Many on the right, middle and left are very dishonest and spin the facts to meet their own narrative. If they are a new candidate, all I can do is try to truly understand their proposed platform and who they align with. I feel most voters don’t did deep into the policies and voting records of their candidates and vote based on personality or party affiliation. I feel a lot of voters are distracted by politician personality and can’t see through the smoke and mirrors to see the logic and facts. Reminds me of when my parents would change the TV channel just because an actor said a curse word, thus never seeing the “big picture” and finishing an overall epic movie. A politician’s personality doesn’t affect my daily or future life as much as the policy that they push and vote on does. We have had politicians who had great personalities, were great orators, could sell shit to a cow but were very dishonest and didn’t vote for policy important to me. Others were assholes, but voted on policies that I felt were important. I don’t vote for saints or a role model. Talk is cheap! I vote for folks who set policy I agree with.

      Comment


      • Duke
        Duke commented
        Editing a comment
        Very well put Steve.

      • GreenMachine
        GreenMachine commented
        Editing a comment
        I wholeheartedly agree, Steve. I find our President and many of his policies to be anti-democratic. So, I won’t be voting for him. Others will disagree and vote for the things that matter to them. That is the beauty of democracy.

        What has me really spooked is the damage I think he could cause in the case he is not re-elected. I hope my gut is wrong on this one, but everything he says and does leads me to believe that if left unchecked, and to his own devices, he will lead us all into a nightmarish reality that I wouldn’t wish upon my worst enemy. I am really worried about what the next year or so has in store for us all. And that’s not me being hyperbolic, I am genuinely scared.

      • J89k
        J89k commented
        Editing a comment
        One of the wisest political statements I’ve seen you make on this site

    • #10
      I'll bet that Russia,China and a few other countries hope like hell we have mail in voting and drop our guard from foreign interference. As much as they say there was interference in the last election you would think that tightening things up wouldn't be to have no a fail safe half cocked mail in election. And JK we all know the answers to your questions about Flynn and others. It was because some were falsely accused and set up by the corrupt left and a few with process crimes that people from the right were charged with. When it come to the lefts corruption during the Muller investigation it wasn't in his pervue to pursue anything. Facts are now showing that Muller knew there was no Russian collusion before he ever started in investigation. That whole investigation was a hoax and setup from those all the way up to Obama/Bidens office. I'm sure we all think that Adam Shiff and Jerry Nadler are strait shooters. lol Democrat leadership is a total embarrassment to this country. All I know is that when someone says vote for me and I am gonna raise your taxes, open the boarders, give illegals free medical insurance (but still charge seniors $145 a month for Medicare) Get rid of fracking and the energy independence and jobs that comes with it and then come for your guns. (that is just a short list of how they want to screw us) That person is not getting my vote. In fact it is probably the first time in years that Biden/Harris told the truth about anything. They may not even get away with all those fucked up promises but that is the goal they are setting to screw us with.

      Comment


      • davej
        davej commented
        Editing a comment
        Hillary paid for and controlled the fake dossier. Trump didn't control anything with his comment. Muller is hiding as a conservative. Comey is also hiding as a conservative. IMO both are corrupt and can't be trusted regardless of what side anyone thinks they are on. they were convicted of process crimes during an investigation that never should have been happening because they all knew it was BS.

      • GreenMachine
        GreenMachine commented
        Editing a comment
        Many of our adversaries are looking into how they can influence or sabotage the upcoming election. That’s something you can count on with 100% certainty. I’m not sure where the vulnerabilities lie in switching to vote by mail, as each state is doing something different. Although that could potentially make things confusing for Americans, it has the benefit of making it more difficult for any foreign adversary to implement an election interference strategy. If you really stop and think about it, vote by mail could actually strengthen our position against foreign interference in some ways. If vote by mail changes a state’s voting strategy from one that utilizes electronic voting machines that could be vulnerable to hacking, to one that uses a largely paper ballot system, It becomes more difficult to successfully infiltrate the system undetected.

        I would argue that our foreign adversaries are most likely to pick the low hanging fruit, and create confusion on how to access new voting systems, cast doubt on newly implemented voting system security, and do anything they can to create the appearance of a stressed system incapable of functioning properly. If they are successful at that, they can just sit back and watch us tear each other apart. It’s worth mentioning that the current situation with USPS created by the administration plays right into the hands of a playbook like that. Smart leadership would be well aware of this fact, act decisively to bolster any shortcomings, and work to assure voters that their vote is being protected by the full force of the US government. Shrewd, corrupt, self serving leadership would take advantage of any foreign interference in order to bolster a failing campaign. That would look something like this: cast doubt on the voting system and the upcoming results while using the levers of government to hobble any government agency that supports the voting infrastructure. Sound familiar?

      • SuperG
        SuperG commented
        Editing a comment
        Y'all must be smoking that good stuff. I find that conspiracy theories come out whenever the truth hurts too much - whatever floats your boat to make the cognitive dissonance go away. We all know Mueller played it straight with his investigation - to a *fault*. If he wanted to play typical right-wing dirty like a Barr - he could of. But he didn't. That's why Flynn pleaded in the first place. Then Barr came along, tossing several of his career prosecutors and inspector generals, all so that he could ram-rod a dismissal against the recommendations of all those professionals. You'd have to be blind not see Barr actions it is *purely* political. And that's fine, if you harbor low standards for your politicians, but it it leads to magical thinking and "conspiracy" theories, because things couldn't possibly be exactly what they are....

        I disagree about the Dems - nothing embarrassing at all about them. By contrast - the current administration has and continues made the US look like a pariah. You point out many policy items, mostly anecdotal boogeymen. Illegals aren't nearly the problem they've been made out to be, taxes aren't going up for the average person, fracking is poisoning the groundwater table, and nobody care about your guns if you aren't a criminal.

        Nothing fucked up about it.

    • #11
      Folks who refuse to rigorously read and listen to media on both the right and the left are uninformed. Both sides spin just as much as the other, both sides hate the other, both claim to be fair and balanced, both assume the voters are stupid and will believe their spin, both give mostly opinion and interpretation vs facts, and both avoid covering facts that counter their narrative. The silence and failure to present critical info is worse than spun info and both media sides are guilty of that. Most folks lean one way or the other, insulate themselves from media they think they should oppose and get caught in an echo chamber of reading and listening to media they agree with. An informed citizen must actively seek facts from both sides and make their own opinions. I work hard to endure the rhetoric that is abrasive to me and “bite my tongue” in order to hear the other side of the story. I tend to take the red pill vs the blue pill. If for some reason you don’t know that analogy, look it up. It has nothing to do with republican vs Democrat. My wife takes the blue pill, but we still find common ground and love each other. We shouldn’t let politics jeopardize our relationship with others.

      Comment


      • J89k
        J89k commented
        Editing a comment
        You're on a roll today Shores

      • davej
        davej commented
        Editing a comment
        I personally read and watch media from both sides. I also think that there is corruption on both sides. I always looked at it as being the coach of a football team and finding the playbook of an opposing team then not looking at it before the game. I'm not at all saying all left is bad and all right is good. I know that is not the way the world turns.

      • Duke
        Duke commented
        Editing a comment
        Right on!

    • #12
      I know it will be hard to stomach for many of you, but humor me and watch these three segments. I recognize the very left leaning bias present in this show, but Michael Cohen and Kyle Murphy as primary sources have a scary story to tell. As you watch, think about what you would do if what is being discussed is/becomes the reality we face. I'm not asking you to believe what is being discussed, just to imagine how you would react if it were true. There is a very long line of people in the trail of destruction left behind this president who are all screaming from the rooftops right now. Might be a good idea to at least listen and consider the possibilities of what they have to say. We are all likely to be faced with some very tough decisions about how we will react to current events in the very near future. It is important right now to consider the issues from all sides before our emotions are heightened by what could play out to be some very dramatic developments.

      https://link.theplatform.com/s/rksNh...t&manifest=m3u &format=redirect&Tracking=true&Embedded=true&fo rma ts=MPEG4

      https://link.theplatform.com/s/rksNh...t&manifest=m3u &format=redirect&Tracking=true&Embedded=true&fo rma ts=MPEG4

      https://link.theplatform.com/s/rksNh...t&manifest=m3u &format=redirect&Tracking=true&Embedded=true&fo rma ts=MPEG4

      Comment


      • #13
        I have seen up close the president’s disdain for democratic values, and recent events should be put into the context of a continuous slide toward authoritarianism.

        Comment


        • #14
          This is the mid stages of an unfolding disaster in November.

          “Anticipating an avalanche of absentee ballots, the U.S. Postal Service recently sent detailed letters to 46 states and D.C. warning that it cannot guarantee all ballots cast by mail for the November election will arrive in time to be counted — adding another layer of uncertainty ahead of the high-stakes presidential contest.

          “The letters sketch a grim possibility for the tens of millions of Americans eligible for a mail-in ballot this fall: Even if people follow all of their state’s election rules, the pace of Postal Service delivery may disqualify their votes.

          ”The Postal Service’s warnings of potential disenfranchisement came as the agency undergoes a sweeping organizational and policy overhaul amid dire financial conditions. Cost-cutting moves have already delayed mail delivery by as much as a week in some places, and a new decision to decommission 10 percent of the Postal Service’s sorting machines sparked widespread concern the slowdowns will only worsen. Rank-and-file postal workers say the move is ill-timed and could sharply diminish the speedy processing of flat mail, including letters and ballots.”

          The article goes on. This is a huge threat to our democracy if people are planning to vote by mail. Everyone will be contesting election results all across the country if ballots are held up by the post office. It will be absolute chaos.
          Political upheaval, service delays and operational tumult surround the agency as it braces for an unprecedented onslaught of voting by mail.

          Comment


          • davej
            davej commented
            Editing a comment
            that will also mean my car payment, house payment and utilities may not make it before the due dates and It could potentially be a blemish on my credit and hurt me in future personal finance issues.

        • #15
          That is not cool. Call your Senators and your member of Congress and raise some hell.

          Comment


          • #16
            We all should be, for that matter.

            Comment


            • #17
              I don’t know if this has been suggested here before, but I have a solution to the voting issue. Since practicing social distancing and sanitizing voting booths appears to be impossible and the postal service won’t be able to handle the volume, local voting precincts should just mail all ballots to live and dead voters. Then put ballot drop boxes at every casino, liquor store, marijuana store, tattoo parlor, hair salon, nail salon, Planned Parenthood office and riot supply store. Everyone can then drop off hands full of ballots and stay safe from the virus since these locations are open and safe.

              https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2...ts-voter-dead/

              https://www.washingtonpost.com/video...c84_video.html

              Comment


              • GreenMachine
                GreenMachine commented
                Editing a comment
                Dave, what article?

              • GreenMachine
                GreenMachine commented
                Editing a comment
                In general, I find that any time someone has to preface something with “it’s not a conspiracy theory” before they relay the information, it is usually a conspiracy theory.

              • D-Fresh
                D-Fresh commented
                Editing a comment
                You really are on a roll today Shores! You're killing me! LOL

            • #18
              I saved this from the first year I voted. Click image for larger version

Name:	50228462908_facdbfe473_c.jpg
Views:	550
Size:	124.7 KB
ID:	105128

              Comment


              • #19
                That pisses me off too! Not sure where the riot store is though? Could you point me in the right direction?

                Comment


                • #20
                  The pattern I see here is people are not voting FOR anything.

                  They’re just voting AGAINST Trump.

                  I’ll do what I have to to limit the Democratic ‘Socialists’ from stomping on our Constitution any more than they already have.

                  Communist born immigrants seeking political asylum come here and hear the same speeches being vomited from the Commie bastards that are already embedded in our governments and the new ones trying to brainwash us and ask, “What the fuck?”

                  Comment


                  • Bikerron
                    Bikerron commented
                    Editing a comment
                    They already do.

                  • GreenMachine
                    GreenMachine commented
                    Editing a comment
                    A vote against Trump is a vote FOR democracy.

                  • GreenMachine
                    GreenMachine commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Bikerron, I think SuperG’s point was lost on you.

                Latest Posts

                Collapse

                Topics Statistics Last Post
                Started by roadiemort, 15 hours ago
                1 response
                63 views
                0 likes
                Last Post roadiemort  
                Started by reddog3979, 08-27-2018, 08:04 AM
                22 responses
                431 views
                0 likes
                Last Post brianmac  
                Started by Boatmark, 1 day ago
                10 responses
                124 views
                0 likes
                Last Post Father Pobasturd  
                Started by roadiemort, 08-22-2020, 04:09 AM
                279 responses
                1,631 views
                1 like
                Last Post BigPainRing  
                Started by roadiemort, 1 day ago
                0 responses
                47 views
                0 likes
                Last Post roadiemort  
                Started by Father Pobasturd, 05-22-2019, 06:24 PM
                27 responses
                400 views
                0 likes
                Last Post roadiemort  
                Started by davej, 1 day ago
                2 responses
                76 views
                0 likes
                Last Post davej
                by davej
                 
                Started by Michael72, 09-02-2020, 11:48 AM
                16 responses
                337 views
                0 likes
                Last Post Tropicalrs  
                Started by Lug Nut, 2 days ago
                3 responses
                80 views
                0 likes
                Last Post Lug Nut
                by Lug Nut
                 
                Started by Slammed&Cammed, 1 week ago
                14 responses
                257 views
                1 like
                Last Post D-Fresh
                by D-Fresh
                 
                Started by Father Pobasturd, 6 days ago
                15 responses
                248 views
                0 likes
                Last Post D-Fresh
                by D-Fresh
                 
                Started by brianmac, 1 week ago
                67 responses
                699 views
                0 likes
                Last Post brianmac  
                Started by Doc_V, 3 days ago
                8 responses
                112 views
                0 likes
                Last Post Doc_V
                by Doc_V
                 
                Started by Bip_Bip, 6 days ago
                32 responses
                271 views
                0 likes
                Last Post Bip_Bip
                by Bip_Bip
                 
                Started by Father Pobasturd, 6 days ago
                6 responses
                92 views
                0 likes
                Last Post MikeyC
                by MikeyC
                 
                Started by Lifeguard, 02-16-2019, 09:07 PM
                28 responses
                458 views
                2 likes
                Last Post Duke
                by Duke
                 
                Started by brianmac, 11-06-2018, 08:57 AM
                101 responses
                2,630 views
                0 likes
                Last Post brianmac  
                Started by roadiemort, 6 days ago
                6 responses
                118 views
                0 likes
                Last Post roadiemort  
                Started by Darkkill57, 5 days ago
                5 responses
                146 views
                0 likes
                Last Post brianmac  
                Started by Lifeguard, 1 week ago
                7 responses
                146 views
                0 likes
                Last Post Doc_V
                by Doc_V
                 
                Working...
                X