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  • #21
    You can't make this crap up! O the hypocrisy! They must vote by mail to stay safe but they can attend an event like this with no fear!

    https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2...mpering-claim/

    Comment


    • GreenMachine
      GreenMachine commented
      Editing a comment
      I would be one of the people at that protest if I lived in DC, and I would be voting in person if I had to as well. But, I think every American should have the option to vote by mail given the circumstances. It’s not hypocrisy to stand up for others who are more vulnerable, and for what I believe should be a universal right.

      Also, that article provided a single empty defense of the president: a tweet that does not match his actions. He says one thing about the post office, but he is DOING an entirely different thing behind the scenes. Why do you think those letters were sent out?

  • #22
    I don't know what state the rest of you live in- but here in the Inslee Republic of Washington we haven't been living in a democracy since March. The governor is essentially a dictator- not governing by the legislative process; but rather by proclamation- unchecked by the remainder of the government because he has declared an "emergency" which basically gives him total control- evidenced by the 500+ proclamations he has issued since the declaration.

    Comment


    • GreenMachine
      GreenMachine commented
      Editing a comment
      I think the reason they say that wearing a mask is mainly for protecting others is because properly worn masks limit the expulsion of virus that happens to be trapped in droplets by surface tension, preventing those droplets from landing on others, or creating infectious surfaces. Both the wearer and those around them will still be vulnerable to aerosols. Thus, the level of protection afforded by non-medical grade masks is almost entirely for the benefit of the people around you.

    • Blackcloud12
      Blackcloud12 commented
      Editing a comment
      I do think peoples lack of washing hands, lack of cleaning stations, and touching their face too much with a mask on without having washed their hands first is certainly a measurable difference in the numbers. An interesting thing to contemplate is the end game- when do we quire requiring masks? Until flu season? People freak out now when anyone so much as sneezes. What happens once we hit cold season? Can't live in a mask forever; though the social experiment on the de-socialization of society we're living in is an interesting one.

    • GreenMachine
      GreenMachine commented
      Editing a comment
      Let’s not kid ourselves, this social experiment is a living nightmare. I think the masks will be with us until we establish herd immunity. That will likely take over a year from now in the best case scenario.

  • #23
    Originally posted by Blackcloud12 View Post
    I don't know what state the rest of you live in- but here in the Inslee Republic of Washington we haven't been living in a democracy since March. The governor is essentially a dictator- not governing by the legislative process; but rather by proclamation- unchecked by the remainder of the government because he has declared an "emergency" which basically gives him total control- evidenced by the 500+ proclamations he has issued since the declaration.
    I’m in Puyallup, WA. Just one example.......voters approved a reduction to $30 car tabs last election, but it has not been implemented.

    Comment


    • GreenMachine
      GreenMachine commented
      Editing a comment
      It’s not like it has just been ignored, It is making its way through legal challenges. Democracy at work.

    • LUV4RS
      LUV4RS commented
      Editing a comment
      While making its way through the legal channels our government is spending our tax dollars fighting the democratically decided will of the people on behalf of whom? Sound Transit? Is this an acceptable way to spend our limited resources?

  • #24
    The state Supreme Court will decide the fate of Initiative 976 following oral arguments it heard June 30 regarding the initiative's legality.

    Comment


    • #25
      The real battle will be the 470 seats in congress that are up for election they will shape the future no matter who wins the presidency.

      Comment


      • #26
        As more information comes to light, it is becoming crystal clear that the internal assault upon the USPS is also an assault on our democracy. This is what a civil cold war looks like. To recap what we know so far:

        1. As the pandemic hit, it becomes clear that many Americans will likely choose to rely on vote by mail options, whether that means absentee ballots or universal vote by mail.

        2. In May, internal documents show that the post office begins making plans to decommission hundreds of sorting machines that would otherwise be used to sort flat mail including ballots.

        3. When initially pressed on the matter of sorting machines, officials at USPS lied about it and said they were just being moved around.

        4. In June, Trump appointed a donor of his, Louis DeJoy as Postmaster General. He immediately fired top executives from key posts and reshuffled more than two dozen other officials and operational managers

        5. IN the last few days, USPS began rolling out a plan to remove mailboxes nation wide. They claimed that many of them would be replaced, but then said they would stop after they were pressed on the matter. If they were being replaced before they would be needed for the election, why did they concede and stop removing them?

        None of these facts are coincidental. Make no mistake, this is an attack. Be vigilant.
        'This will slow mail processing,' a union official wrote on one of the documents announcing the machine removals.

        Comment


        • #27
          I want to see my ballot cast and the only way to do that is in person.
          Scott B.

          Comment


          • GreenMachine
            GreenMachine commented
            Editing a comment
            I don’t blame you one bit with all that is happening. And that’s the problem we are facing. Even if USPS is funded and able to rise to the challenge, the actions that have already been taken have done enough damage already to create doubt that can undermine the results. No matter what happens now, the results in November are likely to be contested all over the nation. That is not a good thing for any of us no matter who you support. The president is mounting an operation on multiple fronts that will have devastating consequences on the normal operation of our democracy.

            Even if you support this president, this should have you very worried. The minute his desires no longer align with your own is the minute he will throw you under the bus, like he has done to every other human being that he has ever had disagreement with.

            Also the fact that all of us (on the left and the right) are concerned about our votes being counted should be a dire warning about the health of our democracy. We are teetering on the edge of our own demise.

        • #28
          Originally posted by texasscott1 View Post
          I want to see my ballot cast and the only way to do that is in person.
          The real question here is - are you *willing* to let those who do not wish vote in person cast theirs by mail or drop-off box?

          Comment


          • #29
            In Pennsylvania the Legislature passed a no excuse vote by mail last year, before the pandemic even hit. When our ballot is received, we get email notification. Another notification when your signature is validated and ballot counted. You also have to remember who staffs these polling sites, mostly retired and elderly, the most vulnerable. If they don’t feel safe staffing polling sites, there will be a huge shortage of places to vote and huge lines to vote in person. I chose last year to vote by mail for the foreseeable future, since I work around 60hrs a week and have a young child.

            Comment


            • #30
              Watch what they are doing, not what they are saying. It is blatantly obvious what is happening here. Not reinstating sorting machines, after clearly stating the machines would be brought back into service in order to support a free and fair election, should be rage inducing for anyone who believes in democracy. There is only one reason why this would happen. One.

              As Dave has pointed out, this move affects us all in other ways as well. Our bills may be late, and cause blemishes to our credit. Our prescriptions may not be delivered in time, which for many people could cause lasting health problems. This is not the actions of a government that cares about any of us. It is the actions of a government run by corrupt, self serving predators who do not believe our country should abide by the concept of the people, for the people, and by the people. This is how authoritarian regimes function. This is a red alert moment for us all, even for those who cannot see what is happening. It’s time to uphold the meaning of democracy!
              "We are not to reconnect any machines that have previously been disconnected."

              Comment


              • #31
                PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP’S campaign, ordered by a federal court judge in Pennsylvania to back up its claims of fraud in the state’s vote-by-mail system, has documented only a handful of cases of election fraud in recent years — none of which involved mail-in ballots. The revelation, which came in the form of a partially redacted 524-page document produced by the Trump campaign last week, undermines the claim by Trump team operatives that mail-in ballot fraud is a grave risk to Pennsylvania voters.”

                For those of you who think voter fraud is a real problem. Read this article, or better yet request public documents regarding this case and read for yourself what evidence there may or may not be. The courts are where we present real evidence based upon facts. The Trump administration has no legally relevant (read fact based and provable) evidence of problematic voter fraud. You better believe that if they did, they would have drowned the courtroom in paperwork and witnesses. Just claiming something is true is not enough, especially when it comes down to the very basic functioning of how we all retain our freedom.
                The Trump campaign’s 524-page response to a discovery demand turned up precisely zero instances of mail-in vote fraud.

                Comment


                • #32
                  Using the evidence of very few cases of election fraud to prove the unlikely chance of anyone stealing an election is like saying that bank robberies are so rare that we don't need vaults. In fact, stealing an election would be more lucrative than robbing a bank. The Postal Workers Union has endorsed one of the candidates for President. What could go wrong? The original post was "Voting is essential". Groceries, gasoline, and prescriptions are essential and yet we have managed to navigate our way to markets, gas stations, and pharmacies using common sense, situational awareness, and expert guidance. We didn't need an act of Congress.

                  Comment


                  • GreenMachine
                    GreenMachine commented
                    Editing a comment
                    I’ll make this super easy on you, Chooch. Expanding the existing absentee ballot law to all registered voters during the pandemic would be better than nothing. Here is the procedure straight from the State’s website. What part of the procedure do you see being a security risk if it were expanded to all registered voters statewide?

                    https://www.sos.texas.gov/elections/voter/reqabbm.shtml

                    “Application for a Ballot by Mail

                    To be eligible to vote early by mail in Texas, you must:

                    be 65 years or older;
                    be disabled;
                    be out of the county on election day and during the period for early voting by personal appearance; or
                    be confined in jail, but otherwise eligible.
                    Instructions for submitting an Application for Ballot by Mail (“ABBM”):

                    Print (PDF) the ABBM form
                    OR submit an order online and an ABBM will be mailed to you.
                    Complete Sections 1 through 8.
                    Sign and Date Section 10.
                    If you were unable to sign the application and someone witnessed your signature, that person must complete Section 11.
                    If someone helped you complete the application or mailed the application for you, that person must complete Section 11.
                    Affix postage.

                    If you printed the application you must place it in your own envelope and add postage.
                    If you ordered the application online and it was mailed to you - fold the application in half, moisten top tab, seal and add postage.
                    Address and mail the completed ABBM to the Early Voting Clerk in your county. You may also fax the application if a fax machine is available in the early voting clerk’s office. You also have the option of submitting a scanned copy of the completed and signed application to the Early Voting Clerk via email. If an ABBM is faxed or emailed, then the original, hard copy of the application MUST be mailed and received by the early voting clerk no later than the 4th business day.

                    The Early Voting Clerk is the County Clerk or Elections Administrator for your county
                    Contact information, including fax numbers if available, and email addresses for the Early Voting Clerks are available on this website.”

                  • GreenMachine
                    GreenMachine commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Chooch, I am sorry for my poor choice of words. When I wrote that I was blind to the obvious fact that it could be taken as a personal attack. I see that clearly after being blindsided and confused by your response. I really was just trying to get you to examine the way you are thinking about this issue. I meant nothing personal by what I wrote, and I do not question your (or anyone else’s, for that matter) integrity. I am sorry I offended you and I will try to be more conscious of how my words may be interpreted in the future. It’s hard to see how others might interpret something that in my own mind is entirely innocuous. I am sincerely sorry, and I hope you will continue to consider this very important issue. Much respect!

                  • Chooch
                    Chooch commented
                    Editing a comment
                    That's really cool of you to say that. I feel that you are very passionate about this issue and I can appreciate that. I'm not one to try to get others to agree with my opinions. I'm glad there are so many different points of view out there to keep things interesting. We do agree that voting is essential and Road Stars are great motorcycles. I really like yours.

                • #33
                  Ponder this one for a bit. For those that have watched the Star Wars series.....what if we're all living in episode 3 as the Jedi's; fighting to save the republic only to discover that the very thing you are defending is in fact the entity trying to destroy you.

                  Comment


                  • GreenMachine
                    GreenMachine commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Yes! We all need to think like that. I am always asking myself that question. Sometimes it leads to answers I don’t like.

                • #34
                  Glad I'm not the only one that runs around in those rabbit holes. LOL

                  Comment


                  • GreenMachine
                    GreenMachine commented
                    Editing a comment
                    LOL. It does make you kinda crazy sometimes!

                • #35
                  More shenanigans! USPS will not be replacing the removed mailboxes in Montana until after the election! I thought they were replacing them? Who removes a mailbox without an available replacement when they are being relied upon as an essential strategic tool to facilitate our democratic system of government??!!!!

                  Also, the largest number of decommissioned sorting machines when broken down by state are in California. Coincidence? I think not!

                  Comment


                  • #36
                    I guess I don't see requiring an ID and voting in person to be "suppression" if for some reason you do not have or cannot obtain simple state ID in this day and age then I honestly believe you are not competent to vote. It has nothing to do with being a minority or being poor Etc. You have to follow extremely simple rules to have a state ID not be a felon and have the ability to get yourself to a voting place at a designated time. Saying that we don't need an ID to vote and that it suppresses voting is silly. I HONESTLY believe that voting is a right but if anyone is not willing to obtain stated ID and go to a polling place (obviously epidemic affects this but there are absentee ballots you can get) they do not need to vote. Voter Fraud is real and does happen... It may well not all that significant in the presidential election... But it's still real.


                    ​​​​​
                    LET'S RIDE

                    Comment


                    • #37
                      Originally posted by Lug Nut View Post
                      I guess I don't see.....voting in person to be "suppression"...I HONESTLY believe that voting is a right...
                      I agree 100% on voter id. However, millions of people across this country are forced to wait in line endless hours to be able to vote. That is voter suppression no matter how you slice and dice it.

                      If you honestly believe voting is a right, you would understand this practice is wrong in every sense of of the word. The majority are working people who pay taxes and have jobs and are raising children and contributing to their communities like all the rest of us. They deserve the same respect that the rest of us and should not be allowed to be subjected to this kind of treatment. We all know why it is happening. It doesn't take a genius to figure it out.

                      Itn my small NH town, it takes a total of 10-15 minutes for me to park my car , walk into the building, vote, walk back out and drive away. Why should these people have to wait so damn long to vote? These people have jobs that they have to be at and kids that they have to tend to etc. Not everyone can carve 6-8 hours out of their day to vote, nor should they have to. It's disgusting.

                      Comment


                      • #38
                        If this president refuses to acknowledge the results of this election, (which he has already told us he plans to do) every person of every political stripe who believes in the core tenants of democracy must stand up and say “No! Democracy does not work that way!” If or when that moment comes, it will be one of the toughest choices many of us will have to make in our lifetimes. Do we sacrifice our policy goals in the short term to uphold the basic principles that make our country great? Or do we take a calculated risk that we can accomplish our policy goals right now, and risk that we will lose our fundamental guiding principles that are so clearly not a priority for this president? I hope you will join me in standing up to say “No way will I let anyone of any party from any background trample over the constitution on my watch!” It will be a difficult sacrifice for many of you. But, I hope that it will be one you are willing to make in service to your country, and to your children, and grandchildren, and to all the generations to come that stand to benefit from the great opportunity that this nation has always strived to afford its citizens. The moments that the Pledge of Allegiance become the most meaningful are the moments when we are called to act upon that pledge, even when that may mean great personal sacrifice.

                        Voting is a constitutionally mandated right that none of us can afford to lose. When one of us is unjustly denied access to the voting booth, or denied the chance to have our vote counted, it hurts us all. It threatens the foundation our country stands upon. And it means that liberty itself is under threat. We all must say no to that.

                        Comment


                        • #39
                          Originally posted by Lug Nut View Post
                          I guess I don't see requiring an ID and voting in person to be "suppression" if for some reason you do not have or cannot obtain simple state ID in this day and age then I honestly believe you are not competent to vote. It has nothing to do with being a minority or being poor Etc. You have to follow extremely simple rules to have a state ID not be a felon and have the ability to get yourself to a voting place at a designated time. Saying that we don't need an ID to vote and that it suppresses voting is silly. I HONESTLY believe that voting is a right but if anyone is not willing to obtain stated ID and go to a polling place (obviously epidemic affects this but there are absentee ballots you can get) they do not need to vote. Voter Fraud is real and does happen... It may well not all that significant in the presidential election... But it's still real.


                          ​​​​​
                          There have been a handful of cases of voter fraud, but election security is pretty tight, even within vote by mail and absentee systems. I would encourage every one of you to look online at your state’s absentee system and security protocols, and ask yourselves why it should not be expanded to every voter right now. Do you see flaws in the system your state has created that could be exploited with more people voting that way? If you do, it is a problem anyway and would need to be addressed.

                          Voter ID is a whole other topic that is tangent to, but lies outside the scope of my concerns today. I really only want to see existing absentee ballot laws (all of which are designed to prevent fraud already - don’t believe me; look it up for yourself) expanded to every voter during the pandemic, and for the Post Office to be given the resources it needs to facilitate a free, fair, and secure election. I don’t think that is too much to ask, especially considering the integrity of our election will suffer dire consequences if we fail to do so.

                          Comment


                          • #40
                            cheese and sprinkles! this is a interesting thread i lean to the right but i like and dislike things on both sides of the party.
                            my Wallet is Getting dangerously close to spontaneous combustion

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